Post by tinarikao on May 15, 2010 2:48:31 GMT -6
Hello everyone. I am sure no one knows me but I have played off and on again back in the V3/V4 era, and a bit in V5. I jump in from time to time to see how the game has progressed because I enjoy it and spent a lot of time on it.
So on to my suggestion.
Simple: Stat reallocation with time limits between retrains. You can retrain all of your stat distribution from levels so you can put them how you want, either to try a new build, fix mistakes or just in the sake of having fun, but you can only do it once every few days, every week or two weeks, etc.
I know there is a lot of resentment towards this type of idea, so allow me to place a few of the more common concerns I run into and attempt to dispel any issues that may be felt with this.
-This makes the game too easy!-
The game is neither too easy nor too hard when you get down to brass tacks. There are certain classes or class combos for dual-loggers that will do better or worse than others, but the name of the game is grind. A solo fighter who is willing can eventually at some point put up a decent fight against Vallatio.
I believe that the difficulty of the game is largely based upon your party composition and the gear you save up to buy and, let's face it, luck. Being paralyzed in a solo run can ruin your streak entirely as easy as going somewhere you're under leveled for. A large enough party can mitigate that as well.
Allowing people to retrain their stat point distribution from time to time merely allows them to shift their focus to something different. Currently it would do little to change the core function of any of the classes, with a few exceptions being to allow healers to cast more, weaker heals between meditation or turning the efficient blasters into all-out nukers.
Do we really want to force people to make two of the same character class just so they can experiment with different builds?
-You can't retrain in single player RPGs, so why should you here?-
This is an obstinate concern in my opinion. In a typical single player console RPG, all content is strictly designed for one of two goals. First is an "open ended" experience where the player has control over how their character's abilities and functions progress. Some games do allow 'do-overs' for some cases but typically no. Second is the type where character development is strictly laid out and the characters has little to no control. We can ignore that.
Going back to the first where a person is allowed to make the developmental changes to their character, it is very much possible for players to wind themselves into a corner that is hard to come out of but there are times which the game itself has checks and balances that allow them to progress through, be it special items that function only at hard points, characters to aid you through it or just allowing you to redo some choices.
Another point I feel should be made is a person is typically expected to invest between 30-50 hours in a single player RPG and once they have cleared it, they can do the same in 20-30 hours. If they want to try something new it's relatively easy and with no persistent world, starting over is the only means of 'continuing' the game.
Multiplayer Online RPG games on the other hand have players investing literally hundreds of hours into a single character to get them where they are. There is a persistent world with friends and enemies that will continually press and challenge the player to continue on. Why is it then we feel that we must compare a "30-50 hour experience" to what can be a much longer, much more dedicated, much more persistent experience? Why do we feel that since single players typically refuse to allow retraining we have to do the same in what is arguably something entirely different?
-People will abuse it and constantly change, boss to boss, area to area!-
This is certainly a valid concern and the reason we need to include checks and balances to the character. Lifetime limited amounts of retrains simply delay the problem rather than fix it and putting exorbitant cost barriers will make it something too difficult for fledgling players to ever achieve while eventually it becomes but a pittance to the most veteran among us.
The one common thing among all players, classes, characters and level gaps is time. The most important factor in retraining systems that must be factored boils down to time. If it costs EXP, it takes time to regain that. If it costs money, that takes time to regain as well. A long quest per retrain? Time invested. In the interest of cutting back on the things factors that allow vets easier access than beginners, a simple time limit works well. The moment you retrain, apply a week long timer preventing you from doing it again will stifle people from just changing completely on a whim while allowing the more liberal to experiment, goof off or just have fun with the flexibility it provides.
If anyone else believes there is a reason that time limited stat reallocations should not be put into the game, please tell me. I would be happy to discuss the ideal behind it with anyone willing to hold a reasonable debate of the subject.
All in all, I believe that it holds nothing but benefits for the ideals of fun and creativity. It may remove the 'long term planning' aspect, but why should a new person who has no idea how different stat allocations be paralyzed with indecision knowing that his choices are irrevocable or have to follow another person's guide for fear that his mistakes are permanent? Long term planning is for someone who fully understands the weight of the system and knows what will happen when things are done a certain way. A new player feeling as if they can't experiment without having to reinvest all their time isn't as appealing.
If you read through all of this, thank you for taking the time to consider my suggestion. It's not a new idea in MMORPGs, simply an idea I feel has nothing but benefits when looked at logically.
So on to my suggestion.
Simple: Stat reallocation with time limits between retrains. You can retrain all of your stat distribution from levels so you can put them how you want, either to try a new build, fix mistakes or just in the sake of having fun, but you can only do it once every few days, every week or two weeks, etc.
I know there is a lot of resentment towards this type of idea, so allow me to place a few of the more common concerns I run into and attempt to dispel any issues that may be felt with this.
-This makes the game too easy!-
The game is neither too easy nor too hard when you get down to brass tacks. There are certain classes or class combos for dual-loggers that will do better or worse than others, but the name of the game is grind. A solo fighter who is willing can eventually at some point put up a decent fight against Vallatio.
I believe that the difficulty of the game is largely based upon your party composition and the gear you save up to buy and, let's face it, luck. Being paralyzed in a solo run can ruin your streak entirely as easy as going somewhere you're under leveled for. A large enough party can mitigate that as well.
Allowing people to retrain their stat point distribution from time to time merely allows them to shift their focus to something different. Currently it would do little to change the core function of any of the classes, with a few exceptions being to allow healers to cast more, weaker heals between meditation or turning the efficient blasters into all-out nukers.
Do we really want to force people to make two of the same character class just so they can experiment with different builds?
-You can't retrain in single player RPGs, so why should you here?-
This is an obstinate concern in my opinion. In a typical single player console RPG, all content is strictly designed for one of two goals. First is an "open ended" experience where the player has control over how their character's abilities and functions progress. Some games do allow 'do-overs' for some cases but typically no. Second is the type where character development is strictly laid out and the characters has little to no control. We can ignore that.
Going back to the first where a person is allowed to make the developmental changes to their character, it is very much possible for players to wind themselves into a corner that is hard to come out of but there are times which the game itself has checks and balances that allow them to progress through, be it special items that function only at hard points, characters to aid you through it or just allowing you to redo some choices.
Another point I feel should be made is a person is typically expected to invest between 30-50 hours in a single player RPG and once they have cleared it, they can do the same in 20-30 hours. If they want to try something new it's relatively easy and with no persistent world, starting over is the only means of 'continuing' the game.
Multiplayer Online RPG games on the other hand have players investing literally hundreds of hours into a single character to get them where they are. There is a persistent world with friends and enemies that will continually press and challenge the player to continue on. Why is it then we feel that we must compare a "30-50 hour experience" to what can be a much longer, much more dedicated, much more persistent experience? Why do we feel that since single players typically refuse to allow retraining we have to do the same in what is arguably something entirely different?
-People will abuse it and constantly change, boss to boss, area to area!-
This is certainly a valid concern and the reason we need to include checks and balances to the character. Lifetime limited amounts of retrains simply delay the problem rather than fix it and putting exorbitant cost barriers will make it something too difficult for fledgling players to ever achieve while eventually it becomes but a pittance to the most veteran among us.
The one common thing among all players, classes, characters and level gaps is time. The most important factor in retraining systems that must be factored boils down to time. If it costs EXP, it takes time to regain that. If it costs money, that takes time to regain as well. A long quest per retrain? Time invested. In the interest of cutting back on the things factors that allow vets easier access than beginners, a simple time limit works well. The moment you retrain, apply a week long timer preventing you from doing it again will stifle people from just changing completely on a whim while allowing the more liberal to experiment, goof off or just have fun with the flexibility it provides.
If anyone else believes there is a reason that time limited stat reallocations should not be put into the game, please tell me. I would be happy to discuss the ideal behind it with anyone willing to hold a reasonable debate of the subject.
All in all, I believe that it holds nothing but benefits for the ideals of fun and creativity. It may remove the 'long term planning' aspect, but why should a new person who has no idea how different stat allocations be paralyzed with indecision knowing that his choices are irrevocable or have to follow another person's guide for fear that his mistakes are permanent? Long term planning is for someone who fully understands the weight of the system and knows what will happen when things are done a certain way. A new player feeling as if they can't experiment without having to reinvest all their time isn't as appealing.
If you read through all of this, thank you for taking the time to consider my suggestion. It's not a new idea in MMORPGs, simply an idea I feel has nothing but benefits when looked at logically.