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Post by U. Dye on Nov 1, 2005 14:44:12 GMT -6
I've been kinda trying to think outside the box as far as RMs go, because let's face it, there really isn't a whole lot of stuff left in the box that could be considered very practical.
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Post by just2slick4u on Nov 1, 2005 19:49:19 GMT -6
make instill jump to tier 2 spells? or have a chance of doing a tier 2 spell? O.o ::is stabbed by the non existant bad karma points::
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Post by Sarm on Nov 2, 2005 11:17:21 GMT -6
So they'd be compltely invincible to physical attacks? Hello Grygasz.
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Post by U. Dye on Nov 2, 2005 11:47:05 GMT -6
No, not invincible to attacks. They'd take damage like normal, but the attacker would take damage from the wall.
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Post by Keepa on Nov 2, 2005 13:34:03 GMT -6
ShockWave-Dragoons-Jump Skill....Its a Area Attack..25%-50% to a 3x3 area maybe...i've heard that Dragoons don't need it but i'm using a Dragoon and i don't see why not...its a small area and a weak attack. You Probably won't Even Concider it but....Hey Why Not.?
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Rowan
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Post by Rowan on Nov 2, 2005 14:42:00 GMT -6
I'm almost positive thats in the already suggeted thread... and it is:
-Shockwave: 3 MP (Sky Fighting) Requires jump. Dragoon attacks enemy with 125% damage, as well as doing 75% normal damage in a 5x5 area.
along with other AoE attacks for dragoons. They're not going to get them since dragoons are supposed to be more of a dueling class not I make all the monsters fall down class.
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Post by Takahashi on Nov 3, 2005 17:06:34 GMT -6
-= Ranger =-
Call of the Ankylosaur: 30% of max MP
The user is transformed into an ankylosaur, decreasing attack speed by 25% and evasion speed by 75%. However, HP and defense are increased by 50%, while damage is doubled. The Ranger also gains minor resistance to physical, fire, lightning and ice damage, while partially resisting status ailments (all at 80% normal damage/effectiveness).
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Rowan
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Post by Rowan on Nov 5, 2005 0:35:08 GMT -6
Using a morph defensively. I definately approve of it, more strategy for rangers, and the elemental resistance is a plus. I'd like to see more calls that don't involve increasing attack and alot of evasion ones have already been suggested, but since dodging isn't too big of a factor except for thieves I don't see alot of use in it. Of course I could be wrong and it could keep the ranger immune to most low agi monsters and annoying effects like eat and exp drain.
Anyways Blade Storm (War Tactics) The fighter selects an area 3x3 of which we will call the 'danger zone' any creature attacking the fighter or ally which he is blocking for gives the fighter an attack of opportunity against the creature. Basically the area represents the fighter dashing around wildly and thrashing his weapon of choice about and at the same time miraculously providing cover for his ally of choice. Another alternative to an aoe attack.
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Post by Rapta111 on Nov 9, 2005 21:30:22 GMT -6
I'm almost positive thats in the already suggeted thread... and it is: -Shockwave: 3 MP (Sky Fighting) Requires jump. Dragoon attacks enemy with 125% damage, as well as doing 75% normal damage in a 5x5 area. along with other AoE attacks for dragoons. They're not going to get them since dragoons are supposed to be more of a dueling class not I make all the monsters fall down class. Holy crap, someone uses that thread I made. I'm so happy.
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Post by just2slick4u on Nov 10, 2005 19:05:54 GMT -6
You know what redmages really need? A MELEE skill...don't ask what, they just do, since they don't have one, at least I think.
-=Redmages=-
Pimphit - MP cost ?? - User strikes the enemy with a bonus 25% boost, enemy has a chance of being confused.
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Post by Sandlight on Nov 10, 2005 20:31:06 GMT -6
-Fighters-
Guard- when user is hit by a physical attack, 50% of the time user will only take half the damage
-Redmages-
Elemental Shield- when user defends, all magic damage toward user is half
-Thieves-
Flash Step (passive)- all moves that is percent based are increased by 10%
Sprint- user is inflicted with "fast1"
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Caoineag
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Post by Caoineag on Nov 10, 2005 20:34:43 GMT -6
Yay, more useless clutter... uf. Anyway, RM 'skill'.
magic fencing - passive - when instill is in effect, character resists 30% of corresponding elemental damage (fire instill resists ice damage, ice resists fire, lit resists lit*)
Ordinarily, it makes little sense for a character to stop an elemental blast with a physical weapon. When the weapon itself possesses elemental energy, though, it is perhaps more sensible? The idea is essentially that they parry or 'cut through' the blast (this sort of thing is often seen in fighting anime/manga).
It seems more or less appropriate for RMs. The ability isn't one unique to any individual class (WM/BM's both have elemental resistance), nor is it stronger than the ability as possessed by the other classes (improved and master resist elements both reduce damage by a greater percentage and work against all three elements at the same time). As well, it fits with the general spell-scheme of RMs, being essentially another defensive buff (RMs are the only class to get both barrier and shield, after all).
While RMs aren't supposed to have many 'unique' abilities, I would think its being a direct extension of an existing ability would make it more acceptable. Additionally, it would help to make instill more useful at later levels without simply pumping up the damage via level 2 or area spells. Post-enlightenment, 50mp is pretty steep for an extra two hundred damage or so, but for a combination of offense and defense, it's fairly reasonable.
And yeah, I realize the name sucks.
* lit resisting lit may seem nonsensical at first, but as there isn't really an 'opposite' and as we're dealing with electromagnetics, like repelling like sounded justifiable.
Postscript: I recognize that this is somewhat similar to the tier-1 'elemental shield' suggestion (in choice of element and degree of protection) and the 'master element' suggestion (being passive and only affecting the user), but I felt it would be better to develop a skill they already had, and to keep its power capped.
The rationale behind 'master element' (that specializing in one element allows greater mastery than a generalized class) doesn't hold IMO, as I had always though that specializing in an element was all that allowed them to match the abilities of offensive magic experts (that is, it's the only reason RMs get a tier 3 elemental spell).
I was rather tempted to post a suggestion that RMs be forced to restrict themselves to a weapon of specialty when created (as with elements), with weapon choice causing slight alteration to instill mechanics and granting a passive 'mastery' skill which improves their mêlée abilities somewhat. (Example: due the inherent magic association, staff-users were suggested to gain instill at lower levels and be able to use harm-element; 'staff mastery' simply upped the maximum number of hits to 3, so that a battle staff would be comparable to a bludgeon in damage, if still somewhat inferior)
The concept of 'mastery' was basically that they polish the fundamentals of their particular weapon-form, granting a mild bonus to normal combat, rather than developing specialized fighting techniques (yeah, tripling the number of hits for staffs is more than a mild boost, but really, restricting yourself to staffs would otherwise completely cripple your mêlée ability).
Whereas I had fun playing with the balance of the system, in the end it seemed too complex, and would have forced players to make extremely weighty decisions of character development way too early in the game. Besides which, the mêlée-class enthusiasts have been pondering weapon specialties for awhile now, and might consider it an odd gift to RMs.
As a final note, don't take this stuff too seriously. I'm not protesting or demanding anything (whereas I thought this was implicit and pretty clear, the responses to most of my earlier posts would indicate otherwise); I write this sort of crap as a mental exercise and to kill time. My apologies if I've inadvertently offed some of yours as well.
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Post by Sarm on Nov 11, 2005 2:14:54 GMT -6
Maybe that Fire/Ice/Lit blocking should work in a triangle format.
Pokemon explained Fire>Lit away by saying excessive heat neutralizes lighting. And then Lit > Ice because frozen water. Conductive! ...maybe. And then Ice > Fire because the fire may melt the ice, but the resulting water can put out the fire.
...yes, I just took an idea from the Pokemon cartoon.
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Post by Rapta111 on Nov 12, 2005 20:31:12 GMT -6
Well, in the Pokemon GAME, Fire has an advantage over lightning. It actually does make sense, as when water is Frozen, it expands, unlike other liquids which condense. So in theory, when ice attacks are melted, they become only a small amount of water, compared to the large amount of water being shot at fire, puts out the fire. Pokemon science.
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Rowan
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Post by Rowan on Nov 13, 2005 18:36:06 GMT -6
Ice>Fire But fire was also super effective against Ice I don't really remember lightning hurting ice all that much, since all the ice monsters were either also flyers or water, course I could be wrong. Any volunteers to admit they still keep a copy close at hand and play through the game to test it out?
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Post by Kyou on Nov 13, 2005 21:09:50 GMT -6
Ok in Pokemon, Ice is normal vs. fire; lightning is normal vs. fire; fire is Super Effective vs. Ice; Lightning is normal vs. Ice; Fire is normal vs. Lightning.
Now, lets get back on topic please.
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Post by Kyou on Dec 14, 2005 21:02:39 GMT -6
Ok I guess this is considered double-posting and thread necromancy, but its for the purpose of restarting this topic.
I think Redmages should get a passive skill later in the *around or after 50* that lets them attack the same turn they use instill element. It would work like Warcry, after you pick your element you pick your target.
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Post by just2slick4u on Dec 19, 2005 22:33:05 GMT -6
I dont know if this has been asked for before, I just got my password back, it wasnt coming up when i asked for it in mail, cuz AOL is gay and put it in the spam section -_- but anyhow what we need is...
Shield 3
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Post by U. Dye on Dec 20, 2005 13:46:08 GMT -6
I believe Shield3 would be a pretty good addition too.
Firstly, unless I'm missing something, Shield is the only de/buff spell that doesn't have a third tier. We have Boost3, Bar3, Weak3, Lock3, Fast3, Slow3... But what do we have for Shield? Shield1 and Shield2.
Secondly... Now, Shield1 can have a pretty dramatic effect... if you're a melee type. Mages almost don't benefit from it at all. And who needs it more? The mages, of course. Melee types can take the heat. As for Shield2... Only thing this is good for is if you want green shields on your whole party. (Green shields = casting Shield first, then Barrier.)
Basically, the Shield spells are next to useless, and denying them a third tier, especially when spells such as Barrier have a third tier, is ludicrous.
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Post by talon on Dec 20, 2005 14:12:42 GMT -6
Shield spells aren't next to useless, really. But yes, melees do benefit from it. My mage has some good armor, and defense vit from being his level. His total defense is about 230, I think. With that, and shield1, his total defense jumps to 299, almost 300. That 69 increase of defense is roughly equivulent to 1/3 or so of the damage he takes from gold strikers and titans, on normal hits. I think the problem isn't that it sucks, and that we need another tier, but rather too many people are basing it against barrier, which works entirely different than the shield spell. And no, not because it works against magic too.
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Post by Hiroshima on Dec 20, 2005 14:31:30 GMT -6
IMPO i think Barrier should be put to Magic resistance and transfered to Whitmages while Shield gets a 3rd Tier, i mean, WMs ARE for that kinda thing...am i right? why would a BM have a defensive spell when they are for boosting damage and dealing heavy damage...
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Rowan
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Post by Rowan on Dec 20, 2005 23:32:49 GMT -6
I have wondered why BM get 2 of the 'best' buff spells, Boost and Barrier. When I say best I mean the common consensus of does more damage and take less damage yay! Anyways whitemages get Fast, and shield, others too I don't happen to have the website handy. I don't mind BM having either of them since it gives them a broader range of more than just nuke everything, but why don't whitemages get boost?
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Manboy
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Post by Manboy on Dec 20, 2005 23:47:52 GMT -6
Bluemages should be getting more status spells.
Blackmages - do loads of damage with magic, with a tiny bit of support/status affecting spells (boost, stop, lock, ect)
Whitemages - very good at healing, with some damaging/support spells (harm, LS, white, fast, shield, ect)
Bluemages - very good with support/status spells, some damage spells and tiny bit of healing (poison, DF, element spell, cure, ect)
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Post by Taterz on Dec 21, 2005 0:05:31 GMT -6
bluemages should be the only ones with the tier 3 buffs, everyone else should get tier 2 (rangers get reduced to only tier 1 buffs). seeing as how bluemages are masters of destructive magic, it would make sense they have the most powerful stat changers compared to everyone else
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Post by Kyou on Dec 21, 2005 14:31:13 GMT -6
Blue Mage Magical Ability
MP Transfer *Probably mentioned before*
Requires 50% of max Mp
Heals everyone in parties MP by 25% of thier max.
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Post by talon on Dec 21, 2005 17:38:07 GMT -6
Mp healing has always been suggested before, since mana potions were removed. And will always be said no to. Sorry, but, not happening.
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Post by Kain on Dec 21, 2005 23:32:08 GMT -6
I'd been thinking of an RM ability for awhile, and I discussed said ability with Faru on Wsay last night, and I figured I might as well post the results to see what others thought. *shrugs*
Basically, this ability is actually two abilities; two abilities that act as different sides of the same coin (though, I don't have a collective name for them at the moment). These two abilities are RM-exclusive and can only be cast on the user.
Mighty Guardian (working name) (MP = to user's level +30%): The user casts Barrier 1, Shield 1, and Fast 1 on himself. This spell does not stack with any other buffs, offensive or defensive, does not stack with Mighty Sage, and can only be used once per battle.
Mighty Sage (working name) (MP = to user's level + 30%): The user casts Boost 1/Instill Element/effect that provides +30% damage to RM's Willpower-influenced magic spells*. This spell does not stack with any other buffs, offensive or defensive, does not stack with Mighty Guardian, and can only be used once per battle.
The +30% effect on Will-influenced magic would basically be like this: if a Lit 2 spell did 100 damage, 30% of that would be added onto it, so that spell would now do 130 damage while Mighty Sage was in effect. This spell would apply to Fire/Ice/Lit, Fire 2/Ice 2/Lit 2, Fire 3/Ice 3/Lit 3, Cure 1/2/3, Healstorm 1, Instill Element, and Drain. Some sort of stat that acted as an in-between for Willpower and the damage done (similar to Battle Speed and Evasion Speed) would work much better for the +30% effect, but unless that's put in, the way I first described would have to do. *shrugs*
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Post by Takahashi on Dec 21, 2005 23:41:13 GMT -6
I have wondered why BM get 2 of the 'best' buff spells, Boost and Barrier. When I say best I mean the common consensus of does more damage and take less damage yay! Anyways whitemages get Fast, and shield, others too I don't happen to have the website handy. I don't mind BM having either of them since it gives them a broader range of more than just nuke everything, but why don't whitemages get boost? WMs don't get Boost because it's not a defensive buff. Fast can be argued as a hybrid (better accuracy means better damage, but better evasion means less damage taken), but nothing about Boost is defensive unless you go as far as to say that killing monsters quicker reduces the damage done to you. Long story short, Boost doesn't fit in with a WM credo; it's not a holy spell, nor is it designed to protect others or the caster.
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Post by Sarm on Dec 22, 2005 4:25:24 GMT -6
IMPO i think Barrier should be put to Magic resistance and transfered to Whitmages while Shield gets a 3rd Tier, i mean, WMs ARE for that kinda thing...am i right? why would a BM have a defensive spell when they are for boosting damage and dealing heavy damage... You could say the same for White Mages and why on earth does such a holy class ever touch attack magic.
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Zaiyu
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Post by Zaiyu on Dec 22, 2005 8:00:39 GMT -6
Bah, BM's should be able to keep barrier, but only apply the boost to magic defense. They should be able to minimize at least magic damage, but not physical. (Aside from Forcefield, which has it's own problems.) Or, to keep it THG old-school, give BM's a choice between barrier or boost. Like how BluM's in v4 I think had to chose between Slow and Cure. (I've never seen Slow get chosen before.)
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