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Post by Firemaster on Mar 24, 2008 15:19:33 GMT -6
Lol Jumin its a friggin exaggeration... But with a boost 3 a dragoon can probably take on like.. an ambush by themselves
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Post by Hungry on Mar 24, 2008 15:55:25 GMT -6
Yeah, but so can ANY character I've ever had. It's not that hard as long as you're not underleveled for the area you're in.
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Post by Firemaster on Mar 24, 2008 16:24:11 GMT -6
for a dragoon it doesnt matter if its underleveled or not... Unless if its like level 5 at toTE then thats problem...But friggin Level 40 at tote can take like... an Army
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Post by Taterz on Mar 24, 2008 20:20:13 GMT -6
dragoons require boost 3, and are only able to bust out a nice crush if they get lucky with dragoon fury. after some 2 or 3 crushes, they're pretty much useless
a ranger built right can easily knock as much damage without spending nearly as much time resting or defending. all we have to worry about it getting lucky with a critical or mortal, which is essentially the same deal for dragoons.
you'd be surprised how long a ranger can last, i'm sure reap will attest to it
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Post by Sur Realis on Mar 27, 2008 10:05:39 GMT -6
Skill idea for Thieves with two possibilities.
Outflank - Attack that bypasses defense. If it's passive, 5% chance of executing and learned in the late 30s-early 40s.
If it's an executable, 3 MP cost, Hide required, with Mortal Wounds never occuring. Learned in the mid-50s, and a Miss costs no MP but dispells Hide.
To make better sense:
Outflank - Passive - 5% chance for a normal attack to ignore defense of the enemy.
Outflank - Stage 5 - 3 MP - User must be hidden. Mortal wounds will never occur. User attacks the enemy ignoring it's defense. A miss consumes no MP but dispells Hide.
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Post by Firemaster on Mar 27, 2008 10:53:18 GMT -6
Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't Blackbelts like karate people? And almost every karate school my friend went to has a bunch of weapons that a Blackbelt always uses in their classes... So why can't we bring them here?
The only weapon I came up with so far- can't really spell it- is the Num Chucks... Yeah I can't really spell it,I think, but you guys know what I mean.
Num Chucks- They're 3000 gold.... You can only buy it when you beat Kaug... You can buy it in any store but remember,,, you have to beat Kaug first... They're 3000 gold because as all Num Chucks they have two sides to it.. Which increases its chances of getting more hits,, Which also helps it chances with the 18 hitter... And more hits equals more DMG... For the weight and all that I havent figured it out.. But it can only be used for BlackBelts. ;D
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Post by Sur Realis on Mar 27, 2008 12:41:48 GMT -6
It has a variety of spellings - nunchaku, nunchuck, numchuck, and chain sticks. I didn't make that one up.
-Realistically speaking-...
The wielding of a nunchuck leads it to only hit with one part of the weapon - the chain is used to create mobility and reach so that it can fluently be manuevered around the opponent, and specifically to be moved across hands. Which is good for duals, but in the heat of battle where you have like 3+ enemies to a person, it can be annoyingly useless - and just because a mutant turtle can do that doesn't mean it's actually plausible, especially considering you are fighting enemies that don't fall and splat after a tap on the shoulder.
Also, since it is a weapon, it is taxed with being slow and strong or swift and weak - as basically everything is. Therefore, a Black Belt with a weapon would only then classify them as a Knight, Fighter, or Thief - Black Belts work with their bare hands. They are skilled in their own way, which gives them the strength of doing many hits that are somewhat weaker than with a weapon.
Not to mention the fact that karate literally means open fist. "It is primarily a striking art, featuring punching, kicking, knee and elbow strikes, and open-handed techniques, but grappling, joint manipulations, locks, restraints, throws, and vital point striking are also taught, depending on the style.[citation needed] A karate practitioner is called a karateka. Karate is also practiced as a combat sport." The actual discipline of karate is, well, disciplined. What you are talking about is an Americanized form of it, more flashy, full of shits and giggles, and fares useless to the person with the gun.
-/realistically speaking-...
Give a Black Belt a weapon, why would he bother in training in moves using disciplined training?
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Post by lordphoenix on Mar 27, 2008 18:10:26 GMT -6
It has a variety of spellings - nunchaku, nunchuck, numchuck, and chain sticks. I didn't make that one up. -Realistically speaking-... The wielding of a nunchuck leads it to only hit with one part of the weapon - the chain is used to create mobility and reach so that it can fluently be manuevered around the opponent, and specifically to be moved across hands. Which is good for duals, but in the heat of battle where you have like 3+ enemies to a person, it can be annoyingly useless - and just because a mutant turtle can do that doesn't mean it's actually plausible, especially considering you are fighting enemies that don't fall and splat after a tap on the shoulder. Also, since it is a weapon, it is taxed with being slow and strong or swift and weak - as basically everything is. Therefore, a Black Belt with a weapon would only then classify them as a Knight, Fighter, or Thief - Black Belts work with their bare hands. They are skilled in their own way, which gives them the strength of doing many hits that are somewhat weaker than with a weapon. Not to mention the fact that karate literally means open fist. "It is primarily a striking art, featuring punching, kicking, knee and elbow strikes, and open-handed techniques, but grappling, joint manipulations, locks, restraints, throws, and vital point striking are also taught, depending on the style.[citation needed] A karate practitioner is called a karateka. Karate is also practiced as a combat sport." The actual discipline of karate is, well, disciplined. What you are talking about is an Americanized form of it, more flashy, full of shits and giggles, and fares useless to the person with the gun. -/realistically speaking-... Give a Black Belt a weapon, why would he bother in training in moves using disciplined training? Karate in general is more of a combat sport than a practical method of fighting. You may be well be ready to take on someone else who is fighting in an honorable manner, but a gang of street thugs who just want your wallet, gun or no, will beat your ass, and that's that.
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Post by Sur Realis on Mar 27, 2008 18:49:39 GMT -6
Actually, I was kinda going for that. Black Belts =/= Ninja Turtles.
Nate fails to get on MSN, so I'll post this. Yet another thing for Thieves, but it's more directed to fixing the oh so abusable SR.
Nate wants to nerf Silent Retreat, but I think it would be better to revamp it, as such:
Silent Retreat - Party Option - If this skill is activated via the Party Options dialog box, and Thief is party leader, there is a small chance for an encounter with enemies to be avoided entirely. (As an example: 3/10 for normal battles and 1/10 for Ambushes.)
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Krelian
Investigator
A man with a machine gun
Posts: 16
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Post by Krelian on Mar 30, 2008 6:04:48 GMT -6
Combo skills:
Im having some ideas lately, so i decided to post some. These skills wouldnt prob be for V8, since it would be a major change to battle system... maybe for V9 or even 10.
It works like this: you need a certain class combination in your party. A new option would be added to the battle menu : combo skill. If one of the choosen chars has already made their choice , they will have the option to cancel it and do the combo. Some combos of my own:
Dark hole: needs 4 blackmages at a certain lvl (like the lvl where they get rub). Casts a 5 x 5 area Rub, with 90% odds even on big enemies. Mp use may be a value or a % of max mp.
Ragnarok: Needs 1 Blackmage, 1 White Mage, 1 blue and one red, each at a high enough lvl. Casts non elemental magic damage to all enemies. Damage calculation would sum every1's willpower and multiplies it by some value.
Mega-slow/weak/lock : Needs 2 classes that have tier 2 of the choosen spell (like 2 bluemages that have weak 2, one bluemage plus a white mage who have slow 2 or 1 blackmage plus one redmage who have lock 2). Casts the lock/slow/weak on all enemies.
Bersek Howl: 2 or more morphed rangers at the same form. Casts Bersek status on the users. Bersek will make the rangers to continuosly hunt until they die or battle is over, but with a 50% or even more increase to attack(i was thinking 100%). Cant be dispelled.
Night Sword: knight/black mage skill, knight will make a puree attack, damage dealt is drained by him and the black mage. since this looks overpower, it must have a high mp cost, like 6 mp for the knight.
Falcon Hit (yeah, chrono trigger): Fighter/Dragoon skill. fighter would throw goon at enemies, dealing damage to a line of them.
Poison Dagger: Bluemage/Thief skill, it would add poison status to all attacks of the thief. Lasts until thief dies.
I'll post more later. Getting tired now. I think these would end the old "fighter-wm" team cliche and would open up new possibilities and variety to the game. Anyway, waiting for your opinions about it.
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Post by Sur Realis on Mar 30, 2008 6:22:05 GMT -6
Not to be an ass, and I'm not saying the idea is horrible, cause it could make for more strategization. It's just easily overpowered. Imagine Tatz, who has 2 Ranger duos. Isn't that a bit overpowered, to have an endless Hunt?
Dark Hole is WAAAAY overpowered. Imagine a Black Mage CP. Besides, Rub is being taken out, along with Bloody Murder, Divide, Demi, Quarter, etc. etc..
Most of those are overpowered - Ragnarok wouldn't even be worth wasting all the MP, thanks to TotE and Mona healers. Like you said, maybe for v9 or v10, but for now that is WAAAY overpowered.
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Post by Kija on Mar 30, 2008 7:20:59 GMT -6
Im having some ideas lately, so i decided to post some. These skills wouldnt prob be for V8, since it would be a major change to battle system... maybe for V9 or even 10. One of the main aspects of version eight is the major changes to the battle system and characters.
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Post by Rand on Mar 30, 2008 9:46:01 GMT -6
Silent Retreat, sounds to me, was put in the way it was to make up for Thieves no longer being Dex-Gods due to the changes made in the system. I'm gutting it. End'a story.
Also, Dragoons are getting fixed, so don't worry about that.
Black Belts with weapons has long been considered and tossed around. Maybe they will, maybe they won't.
Combo attacks I like. Your equations, not so much. Cut your power suggestions in half and we'll see. Also, as stated, things like Rub (i.e. insta-death) will be gone. And please keep in mind, this is The Hunting Grounds, not Chrono Trigger, where half your ideas seem to be from. I'm not a CT hater (far from it), but this is something different with different systems and must be seen as such.
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Post by Sur Realis on Mar 30, 2008 9:56:54 GMT -6
Woohoo! The Dragoons are goin' to the vet! >=D
...
Oh, wrong meaning? Darn.
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Post by lordphoenix on Mar 30, 2008 13:30:04 GMT -6
Silent Retreat, sounds to me, was put in the way it was to make up for Thieves no longer being Dex-Gods due to the changes made in the system. I'm gutting it. End'a story. Also, Dragoons are getting fixed, so don't worry about that. Black Belts with weapons has long been considered and tossed around. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. Combo attacks I like. Your equations, not so much. Cut your power suggestions in half and we'll see. Also, as stated, things like Rub (i.e. insta-death) will be gone. And please keep in mind, this is The Hunting Grounds, not Chrono Trigger, where half your ideas seem to be from. I'm not a CT hater (far from it), but this is something different with different systems and must be seen as such. Just want to add that people need to consider the tone of the game when making these suggestions. A good 50% of the skills suggested are LOL DRAOGN BALL Z NARUTO SUEPR OMEAG ULTIMAET ATAKK style moves that really have no place in the grim, realistic sort of fantasy that this game sets forth. Investigators are not demi gods, they're a group of determined, disciplined individuals trying to put a stop to the poison that is killing darlow. They're not looking for a fight, but they are prepared for a fight should it find them. Quit thinking z warrior, start thinking soldier.
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Post by Sur Realis on Mar 30, 2008 14:48:28 GMT -6
Just want to add that people need to consider the tone of the game when making these suggestions. A good 50% of the skills suggested are LOL DRAOGN BALL Z NARUTO SUEPR OMEAG ULTIMAET ATAKK style moves that really have no place in the grim, realistic sort of fantasy that this game sets forth. Investigators are not demi gods, they're a group of determined, disciplined individuals trying to put a stop to the poison that is killing darlow. They're not looking for a fight, but they are prepared for a fight should it find them. Quit thinking z warrior, start thinking soldier. Exactly. Even though I throw out some ideas myself that are a bit Demi-God (Maelstrom, Weather effects), most of the time I try to stick to the thought that this game should be a bit more challenging - not something that you can figure out the entirety of strategic thinking before you get halfway in the damn game. And, although a large chunk of the problem is in the simple enemies (where are the bastards casting Mute on your stupid ass when you Ice it!? Why are no Chaotics casting Barrier on their friends?!) having a more expansive range of skills for many situations is a way to be able to increase the range of the Chaotics abilities, rather than just making them OMG MORE DEFENZ LULZ IT OHKOS YOU like EVERY SINGLE OTHER GAME in the market. Particularly shooters. For example: Thieves have a choice between Backstab, Bloody Murder, and Pressure Attack, currently. If Backstab likely won't hit, then Pressure Attack likely won't hit, thus you are stuck with Bloody Murder. If Pressure Attack won't do much damage, Backstab won't do much damage, thus you are stuck with Bloody Murder. Hell, until Level... 39? Thieves are stuck with Backstab. Meanwhile all the other classes have a menagerie of skills to handle different situations - Knights can deal damage by taking damage first, can damage areas, and otherwise. Black Belts have a Willpower based attack to handle enemies with an obscurely high Defense -coughIronGuardscough-, along with Bum Rush and Pummel. Dragoons can not only Jump, which automatically hits anything, but also can cast Fast 1 on themselves and induce Slow 1 on the enemies when need be. Red Mages can handle basically anything because they, with enough time, become GODS. Blue and Black Mages get plenty of spells to either kill their enemy or hinder it enough to kill it otherwise, and Boost in case it comes to having to kill them with physicals. White Mages can hold Clubs and can deal Holy damage to enemies. There. I summarized basically everything that can be done in a paragraph. For 10 classes, it seems a bit short. Nonetheless, Thieves are at the bottom rung for their severe lack of attacking skills for most of the game, and Dragoons at the top because they can hit any and all enemies. Even still, BOTH of these classes are very lacking in variety. Thief: Hide. Backstab. Backstab. Backstab. Hide. Backstab. Take a critical, die. Dragoon: Jump. Jump. Jump. Jump. Jump. Jump. Jump. Defend and Rest. They are easily the most broken of the classes, and until that's fixed the enemies can't be made more complex. >=(
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Post by Rand on Mar 31, 2008 18:32:35 GMT -6
Just want to add that people need to consider the tone of the game when making these suggestions. A good 50% of the skills suggested are LOL DRAOGN BALL Z NARUTO SUEPR OMEAG ULTIMAET ATAKK style moves that really have no place in the grim, realistic sort of fantasy that this game sets forth. Investigators are not demi gods, they're a group of determined, disciplined individuals trying to put a stop to the poison that is killing darlow. They're not looking for a fight, but they are prepared for a fight should it find them. Quit thinking z warrior, start thinking soldier. I've said the exact same thing before. And for about a week people listened to me. Then it was right back to the same old "lollercopterskatez narutowarriorz attacks!1eleventyone!!11!". Now, you may think a LITTLE bit differently when the advanced classes come out in some regards. But I promise enemies will be beefed up enough for it to not be noticeable. Dragoons will not be able to just spam Jump skills and stay invincible, nor hit all the time. I have MANY fun ways of altering that capability. Also, Theives' lack of skillful attacks has always bothered me, and thus they will have more.
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Post by Sur Realis on Mar 31, 2008 18:51:09 GMT -6
Give it a week, Nate. ;3
*Starts singing.* One is the loneliest number~!
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Post by Firemaster on Apr 1, 2008 6:26:00 GMT -6
-BlackBelts-
Uppercut - 3 MP - A punch to the chin of the enemy that gives a 60% chance of Flinching. If it flinches it can't attack till next turn.
-Rangers-
Roar - 25 MP - Can only be used in transformation mode. The Ranger roars and gives it a 60% chance of Flinching. Its the same thing as Uppercut exept for Rangers.
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Post by lordphoenix on Apr 1, 2008 9:54:37 GMT -6
-BlackBelts- Uppercut - 3 MP - A punch to the chin of the enemy that gives a 60% chance of Flinching. If it flinches it can't attack till next turn. Wild GELATINOUS CUBE appeared!! BLACK BELT used UPPERCUT! GELATINOUS CUBE has no chin! The attack was ineffective!!
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Post by Firemaster on Apr 1, 2008 10:38:01 GMT -6
Lol doesn't neccisarely have to be a chin..
It could be an upward punch to the face that would knock the enemy back and make it use a turn to get back to its feet.
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Kumog
Hunter
[glow=orange,5,150]Master Soloist[/glow]
Kupo!
Posts: 75
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Post by Kumog on Apr 7, 2008 16:38:03 GMT -6
Idea for a Late Game RM ability..
Improved Instillation (Passive)
This skill (granted at level 45 or so) would change Instillation's effect to where it hits the target for full spell damage (say 300), and hit anything that an area spell focused on it would hit for appropriate damage (like 225).
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Post by Rand on Apr 7, 2008 17:01:27 GMT -6
So you mean make the Instillation act as a single-target attack upon attack, then spread out into it's natural area for the area damage beyond? (Edit) Not for Redmages, not ever. That'd be a little too much.
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InfiniteWisdom
Hunter
The Banished
100%
The world suffers from selfishness,don't be a victim, have wisdom...
Posts: 104
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Post by InfiniteWisdom on Apr 11, 2008 10:14:11 GMT -6
Well i know im like a really strong blm but when you are taking on an ambush that your party couldnt handle and you are left to face like EVERY monster, it will get kind of difficult.(i won it btw ^-^) This goes on the mp amount that someone has and in these situations, it gets a lil tough to med. Basically since the party died, the suggested move would be to do a sort of drain/osmose/new move name that drains mp from dead party members. It would be very suitable and if used correctly, it can benefit a lot. Of course, being a bit overleveled helps me out a lot but in different instances, this move would be more useful in tactic against a challenging fight. ~InfiniteWisdom
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Post by Sur Realis on Apr 11, 2008 13:17:46 GMT -6
The entire party but you dying is just a sign that there are people underleveled in Mona - a problem that needs to be fixed. Details will be in a different thread later today when I get home.
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Post by Rand on Apr 11, 2008 17:34:10 GMT -6
This is why you people need to quit dragging people under 33 to the Monastery. If you didn't have a dragger, neither should they.
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Assailant
Hunter
All literary men are Red Sox fans. To be a Yankee fan in a literate society is to endanger your life
Posts: 119
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Post by Assailant on Apr 14, 2008 9:31:38 GMT -6
Knight
Final Thrust-4 Mp-Level 52-The user will automatically deal a mortal wound. However, the user's weapon will be broken for the remainder of the battle, instilling Weak 3 and Slow 3 on the user. These status ailments cannot be dispelled in any way (such as fast negating slow, restore negating them both, etc.).
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Post by Sur Realis on Apr 14, 2008 12:34:45 GMT -6
Okay. So. For a class that deals primarily in main attacking and will often actually deal Mortal Wounds, you want something to automatically deal one then make them useless from then on? I do not like.
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Assailant
Hunter
All literary men are Red Sox fans. To be a Yankee fan in a literate society is to endanger your life
Posts: 119
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Post by Assailant on Apr 18, 2008 17:19:45 GMT -6
Okay. So. For a class that deals primarily in main attacking and will often actually deal Mortal Wounds, you want something to automatically deal one then make them useless from then on? I do not like. Often? I swear I get mortal wounds more with my blackmage, and he never attacks. And you have to look at what happens afterward. The knight is pretty much useless other than being a meatshield after this attack, a decoy if you will. A knight with slow 3 will hit what, once every 100 attacks? Unless of course it is a pure dexterity knight (who does that?).
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Post by Sur Realis on Apr 19, 2008 12:31:57 GMT -6
From above post:
But, who would do the one Mortal Wound hit and be useless from then on? All it's good for is to abuse-kill the last enemy on the battlefield. I'd rather take 100 normal, non MW attacks than 1 MW and fail from then on.
/above
For Knights:
Retribution - 5 MP - All damage recieved for the turn is nulled. Half of the damage nulled is transferred into user's HP. Can not be used again for three turns. If user takes no damage, effect is applied the next turn or until user recieves damage.
-Edit-
1. No double posting; no spam; text must be in a readable color, size, and style; and put topics where they belong. I know that there are several sub-forums, but don't ask how to play the game in the Compliments board.
-Constantine
-Edit 2-
{Looks up.} Whoops. Didn't notice I was the last person to post. I just was in such a rush to post that. Sorry, Cons.
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