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Post by talon on Jan 14, 2006 12:48:21 GMT -6
Well, firstly, there are tons of members on here. Problem being, it's always the same 20-30 people who post something.. So, yeah.. Only those truly involved seem to post. Secondly, do you all really need the flames, and shove its, and shutups? If you can't handle someone else's opinion, maybe you should keep yours to yourself. Only fitting, right? Lest you want to look biased and egotistical. Thirdly, to be quite honest, I do support the boss cap. Yes, it could have been planned out better, and I will admit the timing was horrible. But as well, you have to remember that decisions are made by what we see. There is, relatively, no party I see anymore that does not consist of a tote'er. And I am speaking out of all the lands. I have seen dozens, somewhere up into the 50's, of names, of people who come on, and straightout ask for leveling help from a higher leveler. If you wish to continue helping people in such a way, you are more than welcome to make a guide alt. Much like the v8 characters in dainan, higher leveled, and before the boss. I see nothing wrong with that, and it would be a neat way to level alts. Just keep them within the area, and your set. Lastly to boot, unless see something else worth saying... Really, everyone. It is getting out of hand. You say that this is capping everyone from everyone? Almost 90% of the basis of friendship making and communication is dealt directly to wsay. And I have viewed many and enough people, many times over, to say this with full honesty and accuracy. The same goes for parties, typically. There is no party here and there not because of the cap, but because everyone is rushed through that section, and get passed it within the day. Which screws over other people in that section. Or more or less, there'll be a party of just 5 people in SS, who need SS, and the other three would be tote'ers, none of which will leave because their alts are in the party, or will help the lone SS'er who needs the party a lot more. Once their alts move on, they won't go back without a new alt. Remember back on mahn's server? There was always a party.. Every area had a party with a spot or two open, or even two half parties of 5-6 people.. Within a week or two, this system actually will help create that, again. Yes, you can whine as you like, that is not something we have power over, nor do we want to as it expresses what you feel. But come the bloody mother fucking hell on.. KNOCK IT THE HELL OFF WITH THE GODDAMN FLAMES!! GROW THE FUCK UP! If you cannot express your opinions without needless bullshit, or cannot take someone else's opinion without calling him an asshat or the likes, then maybe you should distance yourself from the conversation entirely. It is childish, it is pointless, and no one deserves the bullshit. ALL of you, please. Keep it civil.
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Post by Thornreaper on Jan 14, 2006 12:50:29 GMT -6
What the hell is wrong with you? Are you that dense, Kain? Our AIM conversation contained no mentally retarded caps, Or me saying exactly that. True I hit around some points. Not true that I included you in this post. You made yourself included, I think you still don't see the fact it was ill-thought out. Don't think you'll "win" this little debate cause I said I was tired of the shit.
And again - Don't keep including me Kain, you are just asking me to come back and re-post. For the last time I'm done with the crap, what happens will happen.
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Post by Sarm on Jan 14, 2006 13:02:20 GMT -6
I'd be pretty sure that the number of people on for the game was also somewhat influenced by the fact that V5 was an overhaul of the game and somewhat new. Isn't V8 mostly about endgame additions? But come the bloody mother fucking hell on.. KNOCK IT THE HELL OFF WITH THE GODDAMN FLAMES!! GROW THE FUCK UP! If you cannot express your opinions without needless bullshit, or cannot take someone else's opinion without calling him an asshat or the likes, then maybe you should distance yourself from the conversation entirely. It is childish, it is pointless, and no one deserves the bullshit. ALL of you, please. Keep it civil. Oh, the ironing.
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Post by talon on Jan 14, 2006 13:12:40 GMT -6
Never said the way I say things is often right, just hoping that someone, somewhere, at least a single person, heeds the words of advice, and decides to just knock it off.
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Post by Thornreaper on Jan 14, 2006 13:38:07 GMT -6
..... I'm learning DM
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Post by Kija on Jan 14, 2006 13:41:04 GMT -6
I am not quite sure what you mean, Mettool. We were all there when the conversation took place. If you did not like you it, why did you not say so during the conversation? It is not as if this was hid from you.
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Post by Thornreaper on Jan 14, 2006 13:47:07 GMT -6
That's not what he's saying, I don't think Kija. If you notice, Reap said this happened a little too fast as well. From whatever impression you've gotten of me Kija, I just want to re-say this is a good thing, but a little too harsh and needs to be loosened up.
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Post by smashnuke on Jan 14, 2006 13:56:07 GMT -6
I am not quite sure what you mean, Mettool. We were all there when the conversation took place. If you did not like it, why did you not say so during the conversation? It is not as if this was hid from you. The bad thing isn't the fact that Mett didn't know, it's that the players didn't know. That's what caused the immediate backlash when all these people came back on and suddenly couldn't party with thier former teammates/alts. IMO, this should have waited until there were at least a decent amount of people in each area so people wouldn't be 'stranded' without a party, per se. EDIT: One of the people that was arguing so much about this update, for instance, said he was stranded because he had just beaten Gey and thus had to solo for a long time while the next group of players had to trek to Mona, level up, and defeat Geyzer. However, I'm not sure when it could be put in seeing how people were alledgely getting to TotE within 2-3 days. Yes I know that sounds contradictory to what I said earlier, but someone was getting screwed no matter what. At least we want to know so we can be prepared (i.e. Not beating a boss so we can still be with our former party until they are all ready, and so on.)
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Post by Thornreaper on Jan 14, 2006 13:59:05 GMT -6
Smash you have good Ideas Even if it stay the way it is, I'll still play and I bet others will as well. I'm back off to code. I'll re-check this thread in 30 mins or so.
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Post by talon on Jan 14, 2006 14:00:11 GMT -6
That would be impossible, smash.. Those were are usually in SS have an alt there too, helping them.. If we had sprung it even more on a moment like that, when everyone is helping everyone in every area, we would have had the most horrid timing ever..
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Post by smashnuke on Jan 14, 2006 14:09:32 GMT -6
I'm mainly speaking about those areas that you used to be ran to (aka Mona), and now those people have to wait a long time because the parties that just beat Gry are underleveled for the long journey.
And thornreaper and Talon, check the edit I made to my post please.
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Post by U. Dye on Jan 14, 2006 14:12:12 GMT -6
IMO, this should have waited until there were at least a decent amount of people in each area so people wouldn't be 'stranded' without a party, per se. This would not have happened, as a direct result of the powerleveling and dragging and shit. Someone gets to a new area, they're there for less than 3 hours, and they're gone to the next place.
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Post by smashnuke on Jan 14, 2006 14:15:29 GMT -6
I know U. Dye: However, I'm not sure when it could be put in seeing how people were alledgely getting to TotE within 2-3 days. Yes I know that sounds contradictory to what I said earlier, but someone was getting screwed no matter what. At least we want to know so we can be prepared (i.e. Not beating a boss so we can still be with our former party until they are all ready, and so on.) There was probably no way to get this update in without someone bitching. Just dropping it on us with no prior warning just makes the problem much worse.
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Post by Kija on Jan 14, 2006 14:15:40 GMT -6
The change had to happen some time, and you will still find plenty of parties. If we had told of all the players, the server would have been full of this "Hurry and rush me to [x] before they update!!111" Which something that I did not want.
No, Mettool not knowing is not the main problem, but it is rather strange that he would say something like that when he was in fact there in the middle of the discussion.
I am in favour of the boss limitation. I do not think it is as bad as some are making it out to be. There will still be plenty of parties to find and people to meet. You can still speak to people over wsay or even make another character; you do have ten slots and multikey keys for your using. There are some disadvantages, but the advantages far outweight them in my opinion. The problem has only grown larger, so a solution had to be made. It may have seem sudden, but this has going on for a long time, and something was finally done about it.
Some people say that the boss limitation should be loosened so that you can party with people one boss below or above you. I disagree with this. After you defeat a boss, you can easily move to the next area with your current party or find another one. If you are worried that you may not find anyone, you can also just not fight the boss yet. But you will not be the only one needing a party, so there will be people. As Talon has already pointed out, without the high leveled characters taking the place of lower level parties, more spaces will be open as well.
If you are worried that you will be split up with friends, you can wait until he catches up or make a new character with him. You can still have fun, but removing the only thing stopping people from powerleveling is not any kind of good solution to me.
Others have suggested using a level limitation instead. But such a limitation was also discussed, and the big problem with a level limitation is that people level at different rates already; it would only create an inbalance and unfair limitation to people such as a thief to a redmage. But with a boss limitation, you can party with whoever you want that is within your current goals.
Powerleveling is large problem, and it had to be dealt with. After discussing and reviewing the possibilities, the boss limitation was chosen because it seemed the most fair and reasonable of them. Changes may be made to it again if it requires it, but in my opinion it is fine the way it is. Although, with the discussion of the others and the players, it will decide that.
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Post by Thornreaper on Jan 14, 2006 14:29:11 GMT -6
Yes Kija, Excellent points. All I want is people to be understanding to our concerns, and that is pretty much it, and btw DM coding is TEH SHIZNIT.
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Post by talon on Jan 14, 2006 14:29:54 GMT -6
It is just like the save location. For the first while, people were still screwing others.. Lots of people logged to escape battles, and thus screwing the righteous. We have sort of fixed that problem, in time, without removing something good. Give it time, and I am sure we can rework this better, as events fold out. It might not be the greatest of all solutions, but it is still, in my opinion, a good one. And as for the people stuck, to be quite honest, because of this new limitation, I currently have three or four alts, as you put it, 'stuck' because of this. Troll Midget and Morty Bastard being two of the people who have just beaten Grygasz. Troll is 23 or 24, and Morty is 26. Way back when, when Neo played, I was at Mona at level 28. I left because I was underleveled, and I spent my time, 7 levels for a medium BM, in southern skure, before I even went near hassen, and I did fine. Being right after a boss does not limit you. There are, like Kija has pointed out, still options to take. And really.. you beat the boss of an area.. The most powerful being of such area.. The normal battles should be relatively easy, even in smallish groups. If they are still horribly strong, then, perhaps you were underleveled, and dragged around, just like the very thing we were trying to stop. So this who are truly, truly being screwed, were already screwing themselves. That is another thing this is helping.. Reasonable levels for bosses, without overpowering the bosses. Lastly, it has been made aware of already that we are planning out a new leveling system. So, don't bother with the exp rate claims, like rm's being screwed now. Just have some patience, and see what everything is done first. We can't implement an entire reworked system overnight, nor make one THAT fast to begin with. xD
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Post by Mettool on Jan 14, 2006 14:55:34 GMT -6
I probably was there when the conversation happened... I probably wasnt paying attention. Which is a fault on my part.
My real main concern is how none of us announced to the plays that this change was taking place. Which, is probably something I was probably supposed to do too. I suppose that's one more thing I can't do right.
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Post by Kain on Jan 14, 2006 15:24:52 GMT -6
What the hell is wrong with you? Are you that dense, Kain? Our AIM conversation contained no mentally retarded caps, Or me saying exactly that. True I hit around some points. Not true that I included you in this post. You made yourself included, I think you still don't see the fact it was ill-thought out. Don't think you'll "win" this little debate cause I said I was tired of the shit. And I quote: The only players who actually talked about it and had an opinion where Conny and Kain. That's bogus. Ohhh, you meant the other Kain, right? The one that doesn't exist? Oh, not to mention the other part of your first post where you talked about Dye and myself without actually saying you were. ...For the record, I saved that conversation of ours and you did quite a bit of capping. Also, as for "not saying exactly that," I don't know what you were referring to, but if you meant the "some people think powerleveling is fun" thing, I know you've thrown little tantrums before about how I "shouldn't tell people how to have fun" in the game, y'know, even if the way that they "have fun" breaks the game's design. Maybe the timing of the change wasn't right (emphasis on "maybe"; the sooner the powerleveling stops the better, I say), but giving people a warning would just turn the game into a "HEY WILL SOMEONE POWERLEVEL ME"-fest right up to the deadline, which I mentioned in my first post (which you apparently didn't "get"). If you didn't want me to "keep including you," why not, oh, I dunno, not reply? Anyways, I'm done arguing with you too, since you obviously lack the control to participate in a debate without insulting people.
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Post by talon on Jan 14, 2006 16:28:41 GMT -6
Now now, Mett. You can do many things right. You're just not here most of the time to do them. xD A simple slip like that isn't so bad. And it's not your fault entirely, if really at all. You said yourself you weren't paying attention, so I would assume you did not completely realize that update held that feature, perhaps.
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Post by Constantine on Jan 14, 2006 16:33:33 GMT -6
(I know this is off topic and all, but I want to say it.)
You know it's kinda sad that something like this is what gets the forum jumpin. Not that long ago I saw ten people on most likely to check this thread.
That is all.
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Post by Thornreaper on Jan 14, 2006 16:52:05 GMT -6
"Quote: FOURTHLY. The implemented system is good to an extent. I'm tired of all the extremely selfish people who are worried about their specific area. They want to make changes that effect the entire game, when they only play the game in a certain area. That's a problem. I think that the new generation shouldn't be as rushed as this generation. I do not support the idea of a Pwipe to solve the problem. Let's see what else... I guess I'll just respond to what others say now.
Yeah, 'cause Dye and myself (yeah, we know you meant us) "
Nah Kain, you made an assumption, I'm sure other people have your completely radical and selfish views too. I don't know why it's still an issue.
"Did you skim through my post or something? This is a problem that affects the whole game, and it's easy to see that. Just saying "YOU ONLY THINK ABOUT ONE AREA" over and over doesn't make it true, pal."
YOU DO DON'T YOU? God Damn, you said in the conversation you where concerned about Mona -> ToTE, Shut the hell up about everything else, since you don't care. You didn't maek it known, You said your obvious concern was with Mona -> ToTE. I said That's fine, be concerned about that issue, but don't keep talking about an issue that involves the entire game and not just Mona -> ToTE. I think you've said your 2 cents Kain.
I already fucking said what happens happens. Shut the hell up and stop calling me out to continue argueing about something neither of us has control over. IF you feel insulted, I apologize, but you making sarcastic remarks about my opinions isn't to dandy either.
"Oh no, I'm starting to annoy Thorn! Better do what he says! /sarcasm"
As for the Powerleveling is fun thing, I shouldn't tlak to you,c ause you interprete everything I seem to say to what you want it to be. I'm just saying Popwer-leveling was still around and people still had fun.
You don't even play the game any more, and yet you are fighting tooth and nail for something that doesn't effect you. True once you "Start playing in v8 again" it might, But as for now, I tihnk you jsut log on at random times. Sit in the inn, and never party. Yeah, sounds like someone who is actually expierancing the game. Don't expect to keep calling me out, and me ignoring it.
EDIT 1
The only players who actually talked about it and had an opinion where Conny and Kain.
... Umm that IS what happened though...
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Post by Hiroshima on Jan 14, 2006 17:25:47 GMT -6
be aware, i may state something already stated, this is just my opinion
okay, listen Kiddies, it happened, and if you don't like it, Fucking Leave. As for Thorn and Kain, knock it the hell off, it's annoying seeing posts on each other and then bitching how the other won't STOP posting about the other, just knock it off and take it somewhere BESIDES here.
as stated already, timing was....eh..but then again, was there any "perfect" timing, not IMO..i do agree with this system, since everyone is too fucking lazy to do shit themselves anymore, they get help from higher levels, anyone notice how i stopped taking out Hiro from ToTE? yea, not a coincidence
As to who seems to be posting, anyone at ToTE is so bored they actually TRY to get involved in the community, and i remember when it was easy to reach my post count 650+ now that would take Months(ACTIVITY!!! Do IT! everyone else is..it's the cool thing to do...)
I'll rant more later if i must.
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Post by Thornreaper on Jan 14, 2006 17:30:25 GMT -6
I honestly wasn't looking for an argument. I talked to Kain earlier, and I don't know why he took offence to me saying that he only cared about Mona -> ToTE when he said that was it. I compared him and U Dye cause as of what I know they both are concerned about that. I started talking to tell everyone my two cents, and it was on, once Kain went out of his way to try to refute every damn thing I said. Hey Kain, this isn't Phoneix Wright. I'm tired of it, and Rofl I bet Kyou never expected this many posts.
I don't want hard feelings, It's only opinions, and I'm giving mine because I guess I'm allowed to. Take it or leave it, but don't Disect it.
P.S.. OMG HIRO LEAVE THE FUCKING THREAD THEN
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Post by Hiroshima on Jan 14, 2006 17:32:47 GMT -6
if you didn't notice, i'm in the brotherhood, i kinda have to be here.
as well, EVERYONE disects EVERYTHING anyone EVER says. it's not personal, they are stating THEIR opions. why can't they do that? i just think you should both knock it off, thats MY opinion.
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Post by just2slick4u on Jan 14, 2006 17:33:46 GMT -6
I don't think anyone really notices you're a part of the BH, just some wierdly dressed Hassite whitemage...XD
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Post by Thornreaper on Jan 14, 2006 17:38:05 GMT -6
LMAO No, Kain didn't just scan it over.. he did it paragraph by paragraph like the lawyer he wishes he was. That's what got me started. IT would have been nice to just do a summary but no.
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Post by Hiroshima on Jan 14, 2006 17:40:04 GMT -6
you did the same? and everyone does it if you haven't noticed the constant post disections....for example in the suggestions forum or other places, i don't see whats so personal about it.
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Post by Kyou on Jan 14, 2006 17:40:41 GMT -6
Actually I did expect this many threads, I didn't expect for you and Kain to go at it thus increasing the length, I just got back from work, and needless to say, they really REALLY pissed me off, so I'll try not to take out my frustration on here, but on my neighbors cat instead.
For those that think that gaining mass levels is now impossible, think again, I can recall 1 good example where I was on my WM and Dragoon, and Hiro was on 2 alts, and I think the rest of our party was made up by Rapta and who knows who else, >.>, anyways, we went from Beating Kaug to Mona in a couple of hours. How you ask? We went to GY then straight to Anara, then right on into Ruoze, and FUCKING OWNED >.> that was the most fun I had ever had on this game, and I think that this change will cause more experiances like this to happen.
Not many people realize, that before it actually took longer to PL in the weaker areas like at ballistic tigers, then getting a decent party together and going into the harder areas, like Cath, or into Ruoze...
/end Rant.
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Post by Hiroshima on Jan 14, 2006 17:45:49 GMT -6
ooooooh who wants to make some brand-new alts and go through the game...i'm bored (when the server comes back of course)
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Post by Constantine on Jan 14, 2006 17:47:31 GMT -6
I'll try not to take out my frustration on here, but on my neighbors cat instead. OMG Now that's funny Do I smell a challenge party or just some regular party? [EDIT] OMG 13 people on!
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