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Post by Sur Realis on Oct 1, 2008 21:39:24 GMT -6
After a discussion with FenrirXIII, I present to you...
Stuff
The abridged version
NUMBER ONE!
For Red Mages, Chain Magic.
It is teh awesome.
Chain Magic will work in that it allows the Red Mages, the jack-of-all-trades, to use magic in a way, instead of pumping out power like Black, White, or Blue Mages, use speed as an advantage to toss out more, weaker spells. It will work somewhat like the Knight's Double Strike, but it will allow the Red Mage to choose a target where appropriate if it kicks in. For example, when casting Cure:
* Red Mage - Cure 1 >> Red Mage --- 56 HP healed. * Red Mage - Chain Magic -Choose new target- * Red Mage - Cure 1 >> Blue Mage --- 43 HP healed.
When instilled and attacking:
* Red Mage >> Imp(1) --- 43 DMG * Red Mage - Lit 1 >> Imp(1) --- 56 DMG * Red Mage - Chain Magic * Red Mage - Lit 1 >> Imp(1) --- 26 DMG >> Imp(2) --- 28 DMG >> Ogre(5) --- 24 DMG
When using tier-2 buffs:
* Red Mage - Fast 2 * Red Mage - Chain Magic -Choose new spell- * Red Mage - Shield 2
When using tier-1 buffs:
* Red Mage - Fast 1 >> Red Mage * Red Mage - Chain Magic -Choose new target- * Red Mage - Fast 1 >> Blue Mage
And so on and so on.
NUMBER TWO!!
Ambushes suck. For the most part, you actually want them when they are something to be PH34RED. Apparently. According to story-line. The thought behind this is that, from using two different tier 2 buffs leads to the point that the only reason tier 2 buffs are used are to save time; by the time everyone gets hit by the tier 1 in a battle, or ambush, or even Vallatio, the battle is over and the mage really didn't do much to help. Ambushes really shouldn't be 5-10 minutes long like normal battles, right?
Fenrir says: The only thing that will make ambushes harder without giving enemies crazy stats, is to either implement mini bosses, like 'king' versions of whatever animal type
Rdy the Lazy Ninja says: Alphas?
Fenrir says: Alpha beast could have double or even triple the stats of its normal type. CB with 2.4k hp.
Fenrir says: =X It fits into the story too because the beasts are chaotic, yet they have the prowess to ambush you? It only makes sense that their is one among them more powerful and smarter
Rdy the Lazy Ninja says: And the Alpha decides what is the dominant enemy, with an Alpha (Big) guaranteeing party-number + 1 large enemies, counting the Alpha. So the Alpha Titan in an 8-person party would be the ninth.
Fenrir says: Yeah! Or like...an alpha in an ambush would initiate group tactics. They would no longer randomly pick a player to attack. If the alpha attacks a player, his two lieutenants would attack as well. The rest could still be random or something.
Rdy the Lazy Ninja says: And an Alpha Middle Demon would make there be like 14 Middle Demons + Alpha MD + 6 Titans + 5 GS.
---
Of course, double or triple on all stats is a bit much, and may need to be fine-tuned per enemy, but the point of the ambush would to make players in a party need to get some strategy and tactics down; the Alphas won't necessarily be something to just LOLNUKE to death, and not to be scoffed at and just left to kill at the end of the battle.
Finally, this lead to...
NUMBER THREE!!!
Number three is level scaling, and possibly stats along with it; this is primarily for stopping Level 30 people still pre-Vallatio from blasting people from Level 1 to Level 11 in an hour flat. The idea behind this is that the highest leveled person in the party is what each monster will be leveled around. Depending on how close everyone else is to the monster level determines how much EXP and Gold they get from the enemies. If a Level 50 in Rouze were powertraining Level 20s, the Level 20s would get DM or, hell, even Cathedral-like EXP and Gold rather than normal output. Of course, the Enlightenment will have to loosen this rule up a bit with 10-20 level gaps being normal and common.
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FenrirXIII
Hunter
[glow=red,7,150]The Original Gumdrop[/glow]
Posts: 98
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Post by FenrirXIII on Oct 1, 2008 21:47:32 GMT -6
My other thought about making ambushes more difficult without the use of the Alpha idea is to just make them implement group tactics of some sort, so instead of randomly attacking players they'd randomly pick a player, then focus on that one for a few attack rounds before deciding to attack someone else. I'm not saying like a super complicated aggro system, just some method to the madness. Specially in places like PoP where demons and smarter creatures lurk. The notion that mad chaotic creatures can even ambush you in the first place indicates that there is a level of intelligence there, that they are pairing up with creatures of other species too, to attack you. Thats where the Alpha idea comes from.
I know I'd be darned afraid of an ambush all the time if the Alpha had double or triple his normal class HP, and 1.5~twice the normal attack and defensive stats, and if he attacked a player it would mean that a few others would be automatically attacking the same player. First round ambushes would become devastating, and Alpha titans down right scary as crap.
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Post by Kyou on Oct 1, 2008 22:26:39 GMT -6
Weak and Slow 3 the alpha!
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Post by Rand on Oct 2, 2008 5:33:57 GMT -6
I dont have a lot of time, so I'll just get to the first point right now. Chain Magic= FFXI Redmage Job. And if I'm not gonna support turning part of the game into a WoW clone, I certainly won't agree to doing it as an FFXI clone, either, even if it's just one little system.
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Post by Sur Realis on Oct 2, 2008 13:21:57 GMT -6
I dont have a lot of time, so I'll just get to the first point right now. Chain Magic= FFXI Redmage Job. And if I'm not gonna support turning part of the game into a WoW clone, I certainly won't agree to doing it as an FFXI clone, either, even if it's just one little system. I used the term Chain Magic for lack of a better term (Double Cast? That's like FFX), but I believe it does seem sensible that Red Mages should have the ability to do things with magic that other mages can't to make them more unique - it is already done so with Instill Element; Blue Mages, Black Mages, and White Mages can't do that. Those three mages are more about controlled bursts of magical power. White, Nuke, and Pearl, their ability to dish out multiple 'kilos of damage easily makes up for the fact that they are very thimble. A Thunder Dragon Crit in PoP can one-hit Bo Realis at full HP; throw this on top of Black Mages naturally low Agility and Vitality, it is very logical that they can totally dish out some 3k damage for 100 MP, assuming that they get their turn; White Mages have Fast 3 to make up for their low Agility, but still can be blasted with magic to death, and the fact that they can heal some 900600 HP with Cure 3 makes sense because they really aren't the best at dishing out damage. Blue Mages are mostly purely situational, with some of their spells being flat out useless in later areas of the game, but they have the ability to make a Chaotic start attacking other Chaotics. Awesome. Red Mages? They get to do mediocre damage and slightly mediocre magic damage at the same time. Their Hit growth isn't very great (4 HITs at Level 31, which isn't enough to make full use of the Bastard Sword, which at that point should be a tier of weapons below the Red Mage) and end up mainly being buff and cure bitches, especially due to the severe lack of competent healers on the server. Also, all of the suggestions are linked back to eachother; discussing led to it. From Red Mages being able to cast two spells we bring up the point that it would encourage usage of tier 1 buffs later on considering that battles hardly last very long; what's the average battle time, assuming that people aren't being power-trained? Four or five minutes? That could hardly be but like 6 or 7 turns. Battles are so short they are ridiculously easy; even at Titans, where battles with an 8 person party can take like 30 minutes, it's just a lot of drawn out bullshit. The only reason Kaug and Grygasz could take a long time to beat is because they are both cheap-ass bastards (Gry - Paralyzing Roar - Attack - Critcrit - Eat - Digest. Kaug - Stunned - Pushed - Recovered - Moves back up immediately.) Even Geyzer is going to be a cheap-ass bastard with an extremely drawn out - but not exactly hard fight. It's just taking the time to toss out Bar 3s on important people, killing enemies, then wailing on Gey. Chill? Just going to make the battle longer. Quite frankly, I think the reason behind this is that no 'one' boss can stand up to eight enemies. Considering, the vice versa is more often true than not. If one Investigator got in a battle with 8 enemies, that one Investigator is very likely dead. It's just too hard to keep up with damage output that comes your way from that many enemies. Even 7 or 6, or hell, even 5 people have got a boss fight almost completely made unless they completely lack a healer or a tactician in any way. This brings up the point of level scaling, and possibly, stat scaling. First of all, it does make it so that everyone can't just memorize what every enemy's stats are, it'll be dynamic to what the party stands as. It brings up a point of challenge, knowing that no matter how well off you are the enemy will be able to at least somewhat attempt to match you, and with how enemy stats are set up, it doesn't make so that Kreland is just as threatening as Mona or ToTE; a Level 50 Imp would have, what, 500 HP? That's an easier kill than like a Level 45 Evil Spirit. And on the upside, if someone thinks one area is more balanced than another (like people that stay at Mona cause PoP is boring) it keeps the challenge going. After all, aren't the Hunting Grounds supposed to be threatening? If so, it is too easy to beat the current system to make it much less so. Edit: FFO = Poison on the brain.
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Post by Jumin on Oct 2, 2008 19:15:51 GMT -6
dude... there must be a level 70+ WM i don't know about cause my WM only does cure 3 for 700 hp.
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FenrirXIII
Hunter
[glow=red,7,150]The Original Gumdrop[/glow]
Posts: 98
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Post by FenrirXIII on Oct 3, 2008 10:47:13 GMT -6
To further the idea of the faster casting:
Yes, I got the idea because in FFXI that is what makes redmages unique from the other mages, they can cast the same spells at a faster rate, and are masters of MP with the ability 'Convert'(current hp -> current MP switch places) and the natural trait 'fast cast'. in FFXI, a tier 3 stone spell cast by a BM might take 4 seconds from command input to spell completion dealing damage. A red mage can do it in 2 or 2 1/2 seconds with fast cast.
Since THG is a turn-based game, obviously a few seconds difference doesn't do anything. Here's the thinking behind how it would work for THG red mages. They don't have the strong spells that the other mages have. The truely unique specialized epitome-of-class spells like pearl, white, and nuke. They wished to embark into the unknown and learn the basics of all types of magics, and the basics of melee combat. Knowing that their magic is not as potent as a regular mage, and knowing they still need to be agile with a weapon, a red mage casting a spell at the normal speed of a regular mage is rediculous. With the variety of spells a red mage has (in regards to cross-class spells like going from casting cure to casting fire, for example) They figured since it is a weaker spell they must learn to cast it faster than their mage counterparts to make it as effective as possible without hurting their ultimate balance between melee and magic.
So with the double cast it could proc if instill is in effect, and in battle it would represent the mage attacking with the instilled weapon in his/her right hand, and then following gracefully with the raw spell from the left hand, for a successive strike in the same turn, same enemy. With curative/buffing spells, with the same ideology that a red mage can focus a spell into his/her weapon, a healing spell could be focused into their hand itself, leaving the other hand free to cast the same spell energy at another target. It would be too much strain to make two different spells of different magic practices in this double-cast ability. Fire + cure would strain the mage too much.
Perhaps the 2nd spell in a double cast situation could even cost mp+25% as measure of the mental strain to re-focus the spell type a second time in rapid succession.
Alternate method for double cast spell to work: I think when I remember hearing Kija explain how a red mage instills her weapon, that it requires extreme focus, thus why it takes up an entire turn. If they focus too hard the spell could melt the weapon. If they don't focus hard enough it could come back at them out of the weapon, or leak uncontrollably atleast. With that in mind, they could purposely focus too hard causing too much energy of that instill spell type to come out of their body, but with the keen 'shaping/directing' ability they use to instill a weapon, they can direct that extra overflowing energy away from the weapon so it does not melt; instead putting it into their other hand to increase damage. It could be a spell at 75% damage rather than full damage but with regular MP cost; and it could be locked in area-only mode, to the same target as the red mage initially picked to attack that round.
So theres a few different ways it could work. Although one could easily dismiss all of it by simply saying red mage is a master of none, but jack of all trades. Instill is a mastery other mages can't do, so I don't really think the 'master of none' really applies while Instill is still an ability red mage has. It's like the musician who studies and plays only the classic piano his whole life, versus the musician who plays classic piano, a wicked jazz on the sax, and a marchy- tuba or symphonic songs on a french horn. The musician who plays multiple instruments and music types won't be as masterful as the same guy on the piano only, but he'll learn things about music the piano guy would never dream of.
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Post by lunnarian on Oct 12, 2008 12:09:42 GMT -6
I've yet to see an 8 person party I was in survive a titan ambush. If you want to make ambushes harder without reinstituting the monster free hit round just give the monsters a 20% chance or something of getting the free hit in first. That way it won't be a complete trainwreck and will make every ambush different.
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Post by Divusmors on Oct 12, 2008 18:06:59 GMT -6
We could always give monsters back their mortal wound ability. That would make things a little tougher. I like the idea, anyways. Monsters being able to do the same thing we can usually makes an interesting curve, and since they lack area-magic with, what.. 1 exception atm? That's got to be two of the three biggest advantages over them that we have.
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Post by Mahn on Oct 13, 2008 7:24:11 GMT -6
If you want to make ambushes harder without reinstituting the monster free hit round just give the monsters a 20% chance or something of getting the free hit in first. That way it won't be a complete trainwreck and will make every ambush different. We could always give monsters back their mortal wound ability. That would make things a little tougher. At one time, they had both of those. Mortal Wound capabilities and if you got into an ambush, ALL CHAOTICS would get an entire "free round" of hits/spells. It made them devastating... *evil grin*
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Post by Sur Realis on Oct 13, 2008 10:57:22 GMT -6
If you want to make ambushes harder without reinstituting the monster free hit round just give the monsters a 20% chance or something of getting the free hit in first. That way it won't be a complete trainwreck and will make every ambush different. We could always give monsters back their mortal wound ability. That would make things a little tougher. At one time, they had both of those. Mortal Wound capabilities and if you got into an ambush, ALL CHAOTICS would get an entire "free round" of hits/spells. It made them devastating... *evil grin* Yes plox.
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Post by Jumin on Oct 13, 2008 13:21:24 GMT -6
was there a time when the chaotics had the free ambush round but no mortal wound capabilities? but either way.. with or without mortal wounds, i doubt seeing my characters able to survive that free round -_-
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Post by Kija on Oct 13, 2008 13:52:16 GMT -6
Actually, ambushes at the moment do give creatures a greater chance to attack first. It has been like this for a very long time now.
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Post by Milenko on Oct 13, 2008 16:27:12 GMT -6
So that's how those bastards always kill me first round.
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Post by Divusmors on Oct 13, 2008 18:20:31 GMT -6
I, actually, would like to see them have mortal wounds back. Not the first turn thing, though. Makes ambushes pointless, not hard. Impossible doesn't leave you with just enough hope to try, and most people would just do random stuff to let themselves die quicker, just to get back out there and kill more non-ambush battles that much sooner.
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Post by Rand on Oct 13, 2008 19:28:09 GMT -6
HAH! What do you think an ambush is? A surprise attack, that you don't know anything about, where you are unprepared, whereas the enemy is quite ready to attempt destroying you. I liked the free round of attacks. It made things more interesting and kept you on your toes. Also made the hunting grounds feel like hunting grounds rather than training grounds.
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Post by Milenko on Oct 13, 2008 21:29:18 GMT -6
Also made the hunting grounds feel like hunting grounds rather than training grounds. It's still the Training Grounds. Hell look at all the grinders begging for the Ambush.
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Post by Jumin on Oct 13, 2008 23:51:46 GMT -6
<--- king grinder. <--- doesn't like ambushes. they just take too long -_-
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Post by Divusmors on Oct 14, 2008 17:30:32 GMT -6
By all means of theory, you are marching through lands full of nothing but everything bent on devouring your body right before you wandering soul. WHY in all of darlow would you not have a hand on your sword with it's sheath unclasped at all times? If I were in the game, truly in the game, I would swipe it as I pulled it out everytime anything unexpected comes up. Jumin could have gas, 'pffft' -beheads jumin-. Oh shit.. so sorry man... Say something beforehand next time!... Uhm.. so, back to town to pick him up?
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Post by Sur Realis on Oct 17, 2008 11:28:11 GMT -6
<--- king grinder. <--- doesn't like ambushes. they just take too long -_- Okay but not everyone here is a metagamer and can stand to get to Level 63. My speaking of Ambushes is under the assumption that the Brotherhood does want the game challenging, which I would hope is so, but right now it's mostly generally extremely easy or impossibly hard, and not very often in-between. Having a 'leader' in the Ambush would make it harder and require the group to communicate and strategize in general, which is given right now on only two bosses, and even then only for one or two times someone fights that boss (more or less. Vallatio dies too fast in a generally competent party that is at an acceptable level to be a hassle. Geyzer is just a push-over, and Magora is cheap but with enough 'Goons and a Black/Blue Mage that survives a few turns is extremely easy). Maybe. Can't really say anything will work or not until it is tested, but I think fighting an uber-strong Ballistic Tiger that can slap even a Level 20 Black Mage down would probably make people slow down and use those buffs outside of boss fights. And besides that, Ambushes are supposed to be something to fear. I mean, IIRC from the website, some 300 Investigators went out at the same time and got their ass handed to them. So yeah.
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Post by Divusmors on Oct 17, 2008 18:10:38 GMT -6
The ambush rates of a 300 party would be 900-1200, I'd say. With that many numbers, with their turn speed increasing, and with them all likely being nothing but level 1's lol, I would easily put my money on the monsters because almost 1/5 of that group willbe hit 3+ times, and the same the following turn, and then 1/3 of what's left, and then the rest. Especially the battle wizards (mages). It is easy to take out a blue mage or white mage that low in groups, and black mages. And with that ever amounting odds and no substancial cure (lack of hs would be the biggest pain..), melees will follow easy. Even if it got down to the last 5 monsters, I'd say only one person alive at that point, simply by random chance, and he/she is screwed.
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Post by Ambush Magnet on Oct 21, 2008 9:30:28 GMT -6
Well that makes perfect sense. It's stated in the lore that the kingdoms started to send out smaller parties to attract less attention in the Hunting Grounds.
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Post by Sur Realis on Oct 21, 2008 12:58:11 GMT -6
Well that makes perfect sense. It's stated in the lore that the kingdoms started to send out smaller parties to attract less attention in the Hunting Grounds. Exactly, so logically, the bigger the party (5-8 Investigators) the more likely they'll die, or supposedly.
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Post by Divusmors on Oct 21, 2008 18:55:58 GMT -6
In a sense, yes. But in a way, no. 1 versus 2-4 can be harder than 4 versus 8-16. if you can buddy up on your attacks well. Especially with area spams. But when those numbers go to extremes, the opposition takes a drastic advantage of the same thing, just taking longer turns to do so with as humans seem to have more determination to live (or hp and defense, for you non-story people ). And there is no amount of area spam that can cover enough field to wipe out 50% of the opposing side, as there is with even an 8 person party. One of the books I have has an interesting little quote to help support this. "There's only two things that matter: Force in as great a concentration as you can manage, and style. And in a pinch, style can slide. In any battle, there is always a level of force that against which no tactics can succeed." And in many cases, ambushes of 5-8 man parties don't really meet that level of force unless that party is a bit underleveled. xD And don't give me that noob crap, the comparison is against force and tactics. I'm looking to all the older players on the tactics part, since noob tactics I wouldn't call tactics. xD
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Post by Sur Realis on Oct 21, 2008 20:34:40 GMT -6
In a sense, yes. But in a way, no. 1 versus 2-4 can be harder than 4 versus 8-16. if you can buddy up on your attacks well. Especially with area spams. But when those numbers go to extremes, the opposition takes a drastic advantage of the same thing, just taking longer turns to do so with as humans seem to have more determination to live (or hp and defense, for you non-story people ). And there is no amount of area spam that can cover enough field to wipe out 50% of the opposing side, as there is with even an 8 person party. One of the books I have has an interesting little quote to help support this. "There's only two things that matter: Force in as great a concentration as you can manage, and style. And in a pinch, style can slide. In any battle, there is always a level of force that against which no tactics can succeed." And in many cases, ambushes of 5-8 man parties don't really meet that level of force unless that party is a bit underleveled. xD And don't give me that noob crap, the comparison is against force and tactics. I'm looking to all the older players on the tactics part, since noob tactics I wouldn't call tactics. xD *Gives you that noob crap.* Of course, under similar logic, wouldn't a party that survives longer in the Hunting Grounds gain more attention than normal parties that, say, die more? If I were a Ballistic Tiger, corrupted to the point to a lack of train of thought or not, they still have ENOUGH of a mind to organize AGAINST Investigators, and thus can think. Clearly they think of the Lv29 BMs still pre-Vallatio that can nuke them all before they get a chance to sniff in their direction, and either get piss-scared (which should be impossible) or uber-angry and organize even larger shitfests against them. In fact, what if a party gained so much attention that the leader of the Hunting Grounds itself came down to tango? *Lolol Magora ambush on random ToTe party.* But I digress. You speak of force and style as it were in real life; Fight or Flight. However, there are a few minor transgressions I'd like to point out. 1) 'Tis a game, not IRL. 2) And if it were IRL, let's consider what we are up against. Blood-thirsty corrupted-by-chaos monsters controlled by a force of discord so powerful that even God couldn't entirely contain as they get stronger as time continues on while our technology has completely halted in a result. Us: Toothpicks. Them: AK-47s. Yeah. The only reason it isn't suicidal as a game is cause we as Investigators magically get stronger to the point of potentially dishing out 9k+ damage. Magically. Yeah.
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Post by Divusmors on Oct 21, 2008 23:13:13 GMT -6
Actually, I've never meant real life other than when I responded to the ambush part of this thread, that I'd walk through the areas with my hand never leaving my sword hilt. As for that quote, I grabbed that from a webcomic that's based off of D&D. Not so real life, is it? xD I meant no underhanded remarks, meanings, or metaphors in any of that. All that was strictly from a player's point of view. Also, in the manner of thought of the enemies, no. They might have no thought at all, still. Being corrupted is being controlled. And being controlled could simply mean 'kill anything human, as anything else serves the same master'. And with no thought, comes the possibility of not being intune with their own senses. Just because dogs have a huge sense of smell, doesn't mean they pick up every little detail from walking through an area. They still stick their nose to the ground, unless moved or pulled by an outside force, like us on their collars. The chaotics may want to hunt their own way, but Voleron may be tugging at some mental collar, making them travel the land too fast and widespread for it to happen as well as we'd expect it to. We don't know that, as we do not know how Voleron controls them specifically, or how good these chaotics can ward off enough of control to use their capabilities outside of combat. So that speculation on either side doesn't feel worth the time to debate. In order to know of an existance of a party that has killed thousands of chaotics, that monster will have to have survived those fights, which is unlikely since they are driven for blood, and will attack even as a sole living chaotic left until 100% death of either side. Or, Voleron, their god, will have to see what every chaotic sees, and transmigrate their last remaining moments of memory to other beasts to recognize where it happened, and converge onto that place of most appropriate time. And I use the word god as A being, not as THE god. It is not intended to compare to real life religions, so the thought of him knowing all, seeing all.. doesn't sound like it fits at all. In our story, our 'god' is just a higher being from far away. So much higher on an evolutionary scale that in comparison to us, Nexus is a god, but not like our real life 'God'. Oh, and Nexus did contain Voleron fully, and without a strain of power. He sealed him very well. Specific events is what caused Voleron to be released, and for Nexus to be wounded by a surprise attack, not knowing Voleron has been released. By that wound, and the battle that ensured from the attack, Nexus was not at it's best, and could not contain Voleron like he did before. Split second decision was all he got, and so it was all he took. Talk to a lot of the npcs at the Tower of the Enlightened, and possibly the Nexus Monastery of Polar South. I'd hate to give away so much backstory, but if you'd like, tell me. I will PM it.
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Post by Mahn on Oct 22, 2008 1:26:02 GMT -6
I love how different players interpret their own version of the storyline by how the NPCs give information. Makes the game feel more ALIVE.
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Post by Sur Realis on Oct 22, 2008 6:12:27 GMT -6
Ah, yes, I forgot about him containing Voleron the first time. My bad. Spoiler time. However, I am PRETTY SURE that Nexus and Voleron are actually equally strong, but the difference between the two is that Nexus actually gives a shit about order, which classifies them as different 'gods', or actually just higher beings. It wanted a nice place to live. The beings from Nexus' plane are characterized by their control over their enormous power. Nexus has control, so he is benevolent. Voleron doesn't, so he is chaotic, but basically it is implied that Voleron + Control = Nexus or vice versa. Nexus and Voleron battled (LOLCLICHE) but Nexus was empowered by the need to protect the planet (we <3 you Nexus!). Yet, all it took was one jerkwad hoomen to fuck things up and make Darlow as it is today. What I'm getting at is that Nexus = Voleron in power, but the ability to control and think made Nexus > Voleron until *COUGHZATHARCOUGH* screwed things up and now Voleron > Nexus, but only barely. /Spoiler time AND AT ANY RATE, the fact remains that Ambushes are something to be feared and... they are kinda... wanted.
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Post by Divusmors on Oct 23, 2008 1:50:14 GMT -6
Oh, I haven't heard/read any of their text for a year or two, Mahn. lol So yeah, I may be a little bit off. But I tried to make it sound good, damnit! xD
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Post by Sur Realis on Oct 23, 2008 6:18:24 GMT -6
Oh, I haven't heard/read any of their text for a year or two, Mahn. lol So yeah, I may be a little bit off. But I tried to make it sound good, damnit! xD I haven't read any of it in six months and remember like nothing but specific key points. I actually had to go to Brother Nicholas and Brother L'Orisinnan to make that last post.
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