Ultimate Skills

[Dakoda]

Mer and I have talked about some "ultimate" skills that each class could get later on. A lot more information is in the word document. If you can't open a word document, then I'll copy and paste it into a post (or series of posts, if all the information won't fit in one).

Edit: I tried attaching it to the post, but I don't think it worked. Here's the puush link:
puu.sh/22I61

[Milenko]

Are we starting to implement new skills now?

[mermer]

Nope, just simply an idea to give more of a reason to grind and to help keep strong in the Depths and beyond.

[Dakoda]

Well, I just thought that we could suggest them. Some of the first ones we thought up were extremely overpowered. At first, we were going to make everything overpowered. After looking over everything though, we decided to take it more seriously. It would be nice if even one of these was implemented, but of course, that's not up to me.

Edit: Wow, that grammar was horrible. I apologize.

[Milenko]

Grammar fail. I like the idea, but is it thinking like FF6 with Sabin having special blitz moves, or Cyan's Swd Tech? Or is it some random thing to attack/heal/ defend type deal?

[mermer]

It is simply Passive, Buff, and Active attacks based around the character's skill set. Nothing FF related

[Milenko]

Well I vote Dragoons should get a continuous jump/dive attack. Ether a double dive per turn, or have quicksilver make the goon quicker allowing for a set amount of turns continuing to dive. Maybe have a strength boost for the lack of control? Kinda like a mild berserk?

[Dakoda]

We could change the double jump to a double dive skill, which would be pretty similar. Having quicksilver give that "berserk" type of status effect could be interesting to see. However, since they already get a +30% damage buff at level 65, this would probably make them even more overpowered. We could change the 65 buff to the quicksilver buff (enabling the berserk diving ability), but then there would have to be a new 70 ability.

[Milenko]

Well I'm all for making them over powered for the while, till we gain popularity again. Then revoke or implement something different.

[Vahu]

So I read this today and finally got to posting my thoughts about these skills:

Blackbelt
Level 60: Mantra Reinforce (+50% Mantra efficiency)

Eh, it's iffy. I don't think black belts necessarily need better healing as much as much as they need more defense. If anything, this would have to affect Aurabolt as well, since they use the same formulas.

Level 65: Hard Headed (+30% damage in Bear Strength, +10 hits, and Bear Strength stays when in critical condition)

Basically, a boost3 upgrade for black belts. Sounds pretty good, but I'd rather have Leadership stack with Bear Strength as it is, and this on top of would make it overpowered.

Level 70: Thunder Punch (Combines strength and willpower for damage calculation, can choose as a single opponent attack or an area)

Sounds decent to me, but I fear it being overpowered for a single enemy on a pure strength black belt.
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Black Mage
Level 60: Tri-Magic (+25% Elemental damage)

Sounds good. Might give black mages more reason to use their elemental spells instead of nuking all the time.

Level 65: Conversion (Swaps the user’s MP with HP or willpower with MP for the whole battle. Can be used more than once.)

No one would use it. People would rather use Drain 2 for hp or osmose for mp.

Level 70: Psychostorm 4 (Casts psychostorm 4, which has a 100% hit ratio and a 20% of instant death on each enemy. Costs 90% of max MP)

This isn't feasible and really not even necessary to have. A Tri-Magic Attack would be better, especially if you could multiple area attack with it. But even then, that would be overpowered with the elemental bonus.
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Blue Mage
Level 60: Hidden Power (Staves/rods add MP, willpower, or both, depending on the staff/rod)

Sounds good to me.

Level 65: Persistence (Sleep, weak, poison, and other spells have a chance to work on every monster now, except for bosses (except for poison on bosses of course))

I don't think this is possible given the way the resistances are programmed in the source. A Dispel area spell would be better (and a lot of people asked for it already).

Level 70: Acid Rain (Poisons all enemies with deadly poison. Reduces 10% of enemy’s HP per turn. 50% base chance to hit each enemy. Uses 40% of MP).

Too overpowered. An area based spell that causes random negative effects is probably better suited for this. At this level, all the debuffs would be tier 3, of course. Or maybe, it could hit all like pyschostorm with 50% base to hit each enemy that just deals one tier 3 status effect and then throw in mute for good measure.
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Dragoon
Level 60: Live Bait (+25% Lure Chance)

I don't know how Lure works based on the code, but this seems plausible.

Level 65: Will of Dragon (+30% Damage)

I think goons are strong enough already, especially with boost 3 and dragoon fury.

Level 70: Double Jump (Will land on enemy, then immediately jump again, damaging the enemy twice)

See above. An area attack would be nice, but it would have to be implemented so that the attack does massive damage to one target, and then a shockwave would occur, causing smaller damage in 3x3 area based on the target. This attack would have a downside though, as it reduces flight time in the air. The Dragoon would land earlier in the fight instead of at the end of the turn. The idea is to create a risky attack that could be potentially rewarding if used correctly in conjunction with healstorms.
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Fighter
Level 60: Brick Wall (All Block damage received is reduced by 25%)

The damage reduction would have be lower. If bar 3 comes to play, then they are nearly unstoppable.

Level 65: Magical Aura (Block now blocks magic 50% of the time)

I don't think this a great idea even with a small damage reduction of magic. Fighters take enough damage as it is, and they'll be more likely to die. I understand this goes hand and hand with Brick wall but because of Bar 3, it's unlikely it would happen (unless that changes with V8, but I thinking V7 here).

Level 70: Ferocious Entity (Sacrifice 25% of Maximum HP to unleash a howling battle cry. Deals critical hits to a 3x3 area.)

I generally frown upon skills that require hp to function, especially for a fighter, who would probably be blocking at this point, leading to a potentially early death if they used this skill. They need something that reduces the mp cost of leadership or doesn't screw them over after they used it (before warcry; they are immune to weak after warcry currently). They could probably use a skill that causes on lock on an enemy, but this would not be a skill learned at this level.
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Knight
Level 60: Valor Charge (-30% Damage Received, +15% Damage)

If anything, rangers need it more than knights do. Knights need more speed and agility to hit things in abyss and depths because of fast and slow.

Level 65: Rebuttal Reinforce (Adds a second hit to a monster when using Retort)

Sounds good if they get the speed boost mentioned above.

Level 70: Desperation (Uses Frenzy in an area <vertical, horizontal, 3x3>. Takes 6 MP)

This is a good idea if knights don't get a speed boost. I think they should get some sort of thrust attack that deals mortal wounds to an enemy, but that would probably be way too overpowered for a knight.

Ranger
Level 60: Adaption (Automatic camouflage activation when calling a beast)

Good idea, they need it. They could use a defense boost against magic and physical attacks while transformed as well.

Level 65: Rough Claws (+20% Damage when calling a beast)

%10 is probably better (or 15%). Or better yet, give them a Howl move that boosts team morale and instills fear to the enemy or something. This needs to be elaborated on, but it's all I got at this point.

Level 70: Can call a dragon (35% of maximum MP, +100% Attack Speed, +175% Attack Rating, +200% HP increase, +20% Evasion Speed. When a dragon, hunt has a 10% chance of instant kill)

I think Grizzly is good enough as it is; it just needs a few boosts. To compromise, a call could be used for a creature that deal with wilderness tactics like Hunt and Howl and still be to use magic at the same time. They would be immune to certain effects and able to gain certain effects. Rangers could use more unique magics to make their magic style of play more appealing. Of course, I don't have any ideas at this moment for this, but it's something to consider.
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Red Mage
Level 60: Blessing of Nexus (Armor-type equipment adds strength, while robes and accessories add willpower)

Cool beans, I like it.

Level 65: Instill Level 3 (Instills elements of the third tier. Now supports poison)

Instill 2 is fine as it is. They really could use something like Healstorm 2 and a melee based skill, such as slice (I missed the test for slice that apparently was too powerful for RMs to have; I have no idea how the skill was set but it would need to underpowered to slash).

Level 70: Dark Matter (Casts a spell similar to nuke, pearl, or white, except it is of a dark element. Instill Element must be active. Base element will depend on the currently instilled element. If harm is picked, then the element will be neutral, or none. Has a 5% chance of instant kill. Instant kill will not work on undead, but damage will still apply. Costs 70 MP.)

Instant kills are frowned upon. I don't think they necessarily need a killer magical spell especially when they have average mp to work with. Double Cast would be better, given a few restrictions.
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Thief
Level 60: Shadow Meld (More evade in hide and +20% critical chance)

You forgot to mention the defense boost. Evade won't matter if they get hit. It also needs to combine the bonuses of hide and camouflage to prevent critical hits in this mode. I think this will give them a better chance of surviving in the later areas of the game.

Level 65: Shadow Dagger (100% chance of attacking twice. Works with the attack command, backstab, and pressure attack.)

With a pure strength thief, this is probably overkill. But still, it has potential. The attack could connect four times, each with a weak attack but that might not be enough. It have to be tweaked a little.

Level 70: Shadow Impale (Deals a hit to the enemy with 100% mortal wound chance. 100% chance to pickpocket the enemy, including bosses. Costs 3 MP.)

I suggested this an idea similar to this already so you know I'm on board with this skill.

White Mage
Level 60: Holy Charge (+50% Holy Damage)

White is powerful enough, they don't need more magical manpower unless this skill is melee-based, which is hard to tell from the description. If it is a melee based skill, then it would be appropriate but it would be a small strength boost.

Level 65: Soul Blocker (+60% Defense to all party members)

Again, Bar 3 is the culprit here. This cannot happen with bar 3 in its current form. They really could use Restore 2, however, which would affect the whole party.
Level 70: Life Storm (Casts Life on all and cures 50% of max HP)

I really like this idea. With that said, I don't think some of the BH does, but perhaps it could be changed to revive at least two members and heal the rest, possibly.
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Overall, I think there is some potential in some of these skills. I wonder how the rest of the Brotherhood would feel about these. Good ideas though. Keep them coming!

[Milenko]

If anything I think PS4's cost is a tad bit high. It leaves the mage completely vulnerable if things don't all die right then. 10% then may seem like a larger number, till you have to heal/med right then in a battle alone.

[Dakoda]

Updated the document. You can find a list of changes within the document, and the tweaked skills themselves:

puu.sh/24nRY

[Milenko]

First off, I don't think I like the whole Earthquake thing for Goons. It seems like it would just make the jump weaker. The goal of jumping was to cause extreme damage to one mob.

I don't like Roar from Rangers as the level 70. I think the idea is nice but it needs to be stepped up, I want a new transformation just as much as everyone else. I really liked teh Dragon transformation idea. I want a hyper beevar.

[Dakoda]

You have a point about dragoons. Honestly, I like both the idea of high damage on a single target and an area attack for them. 3x3 seems like an overused area, so we may need to tweak it to where Earthquake does something different or completely new. I was thinking that we might be able to incorporate both Double Jump (as like a passive, possibly) and Earthquake. Double Jump might be overpowered though, unless it was a skill that disabled dragoon fury for both jumps.

Mer and I couldn't really think of another magical-type move/spell besides Roar. It could be tweaked, or another idea could be put in place in its stead (like Vahu's Howl suggestion, for example). I'd personally like to put in another call, and even thought of what type of dragon would be called. At first I thought about letting them call an Ice Dragon specifically, since it would have an instill-element type-effect with ice 2. However, since it would probably be overpowered, it could have a weakness to fire, which would balance it out more. But then it wouldn't be used in Tote much...but anyway.

[Milenko]

I do like the idea of howl. With the goon's Earthquake, you could make it like a Fissure, and attack a line. Defonce for a Goon basically. Random line would be best since you really can't decide where an earthquake will actually hit.

The whole Dragon thing, you could be given a roulette on the dragon's element. Lit dragon, Ice Dragon, Fire dragon, Earth.. .etc. It would give more attack or defence depending on which one it lands on. But then you would be able to manually set the Dragon to an element, but not get the added boost of the roulette?

[sherokain]

i think a grapple type skill for bbs could be useful, dealing damage per turn in a similar fashion to hunt but disabling one of the enemies from acting

[sherokain]

Also possibly instead of all 3 abilities you choose one of the 3. This would fix some of the balancing issues.

[Milenko]

So like a Stun as a grapple, or a paralysis. I like it, maybe even something like a sand storm effect ex. throwing sand with chances to blind enemies for a certain time frame lowering their rates.
I could fly with that.