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Post by just2slick4u on Jan 26, 2006 5:24:47 GMT -6
It was, but Hiro insists on trying to "understand" me, Redmages show great fortitude in drawn out battles, and excellent support units, they can basically do it all, and they are getting buffs
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Post by Crazy Cloud on Jan 26, 2006 5:31:33 GMT -6
It just seems hard with a redmage to have one that's thrifty at doing it all. To have a succesful instill, you have to be able to do some decent melee damage, otherwise it isn't to powerful to just have a rank 1 element spell (Although you can choose between all three). Then if your a Pure magic Redmage then you seem to be alright, but you'd be better of with just being one of the other mages. However, I must say that Ken's redmage seems to be the best one I've seen being able to do it all, so I'm def. wrong somewhere along this line but it seems difficult to make a good redmage and you have to use your points effectively.
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Post by Sarm on Jan 26, 2006 7:23:55 GMT -6
If I could choose, I'd just take a pure Str White Mage over a Red Mage any day. Better healing, attack magic, and the occasional melee if he feels like it.
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Post by Thornreaper on Jan 27, 2006 14:57:42 GMT -6
My BluM has almost 800 HP at this point and can do over 2k with Pearl. I did a wide variety of things, and it all worked out.
<<Most AGI and HP of any BluM.. I used to have the most HP for a Theif until Soothsayer did it,
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Post by just2slick4u on Jan 27, 2006 16:38:23 GMT -6
Yeah, but Soothsayer cant hit like Nroht or the Admiral, I like our thief builds better, go pirates! It is always good to put HP into just about any char except a ranger, due to transformations, but hey a build is a build...
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Post by Ambush Magnet on Jan 28, 2006 3:22:02 GMT -6
I just dont get it... Knights >>>>>> Redmages just make a knight? =p I have both at ToTE (Well, they WERE at ToTE). It's kinda hard, the RM doesn't get the kinda status spells that are useful aound there.
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Post by Sarm on Jan 28, 2006 3:47:46 GMT -6
Yeah, but Soothsayer cant hit like Nroht or the Admiral, I like our thief builds better, go pirates! It is always good to put HP into just about any char except a ranger, due to transformations, but hey a build is a build... Why would putting HP to a Fighter be better than to a Ranger? You might say they don't need it but putting more natural HP in will compound it even MORE. With the blessing, imagine the staying power...
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Post by Crazy Cloud on Jan 28, 2006 4:12:05 GMT -6
No matter how much hp you have, rub still kills you in one hit.
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Post by just2slick4u on Jan 28, 2006 9:10:33 GMT -6
Sarm, 1 pt of str for a Ranger boosts his grizzly dmg by about 10 - 17 points..., so I look at that as a better trade off of 3 HP per lvls, plus the Grizzle gives you close to 2K HP just clean, but builds are builds, there are no bad ones
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Post by Thornreaper on Jan 28, 2006 13:29:21 GMT -6
OMG NEW SIGGY. And Yeah, GL is my source of my next build.. which is a secret, but it consists of two of his Chars.. OMG SECRIT
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Post by Rapta111 on Jan 31, 2006 17:19:00 GMT -6
You people should go for more dual-pronged builds, like my Whitemage that can usually heal before any other whitemage. Or just go for getting all 10 classes past Magora. There's a challenge for ya.
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Post by Jumin on Jan 31, 2006 23:16:57 GMT -6
cool.. but wouldn't you want to heal towards the middle or end of the round, so that u can actually heal people that took hits?
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Post by Takahashi on Feb 1, 2006 3:36:11 GMT -6
It's situational. If you have a lot of agility, you can heal people that took heavy hits at the end of the last round. If you go with a build that ignores agility, there's a chance those people would die before your turn comes.
On the other hand, if you ignore agility, you can heal people that took heavy damage at the start or the middle of the current round. With a heavy agi build, there's the chance that you'll heal people before they get seriously wounded, effectively wasting your turn that round.
It comes down to what you'd prefer: Being able to heal people at the start of a round but risk having your spell go off too soon, or being able to heal people at the end of a round but risk having a target (or targets) die before your healing occurs
If you go somewhere in the middle, then you get a mix of the pros and cons of the first two builds. Your turn usually comes around the middle, so either your healing is opportune (enough people are hurt to where its worth it) or it's even more frustratingly JUST slower than needed (someone dies the turn right before yours as opposed to several turns before yours).
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Post by Jumin on Feb 1, 2006 20:31:26 GMT -6
lol.. that sounds like my WM.. but my WM is just pure WP, but it's mostly a offensive WM
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Zaiyu
Explorer
What is a man?! A miserable little pile of secrets! But enough talk! Have at you!
Posts: 46
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Post by Zaiyu on Feb 5, 2006 11:57:17 GMT -6
Okay, to end the thing with Red Mages, what exactly they're good for is solely on their build. Too much will, and you're better off using HS/Elemental spell (The turn you use Instill isn't really worth it, so you've really gotta be careful with what spell you choose at the start.) If you're going to be like Firestarter, and going for Vit, then you should focus on bolstering your defense even further, and outlasting your enemies (Normal RM can do this easily anyway, vit just makes it even easier.) If you're going for the common str/will, USE INSTILL ELEMENT! That's going to be your main weapon, and if you choose the element that monsters are weak against, you will easily be doing more damage than anyone in the party (Unless you've got a higher level'd Fighter/Knight that's pure str.) Along with that, if the offense isn't welcome, you can use basic tier 2 spells like Boost2, or Slow2 (They help a lot more than you think, ask CC. ;D) either way, the problem with RM is that YOU DON'T LEVEL THEM ENOUGH! That's why people think they're not as good as they really are. In my opinion, they're one of the better classes out there, but definately not for the beginner. You really have to know exactly what you're doing, and consider your build carefully.
Oh, and one last note, if anyone remembers Rand, he's my RM mentor, and he knows everything. (:
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Post by Crazy Cloud on Feb 5, 2006 15:53:16 GMT -6
Rand was awesome back in the day, however he's been too busy as oflate and I haven't seen him around besides on the 31st last year. Anyways, I think ken's rdm is one of the best ones I've seen, and he's got a point. I mean, you can't have any class do everything, they have to be made to do a certain thing very well, or a few things about half as well. This comes to be very true with a redmage, however your able to choose what they are going to do from a wide range of jobs. Healer/Caster, Melee/Caster, Statician, Back-up Support (These are just off the top of my head, not to mention not playing for 4 days). Instill really throws you for a loop of what your going to be as a redmage because you put it into just about anything.
Thx for putting it into perspective ken, even tho I look like a hypocrite in a way now. I get what your saying here.
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Zaiyu
Explorer
What is a man?! A miserable little pile of secrets! But enough talk! Have at you!
Posts: 46
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Post by Zaiyu on Feb 5, 2006 16:39:01 GMT -6
Well CC, I'm sure I've told ya, but Rand/Nate is my big brother! But anyway, even though they're supposed to be able to, RM can't do -everything-. They just don't have enough time to kill, heal, and whip out status effects all at the same time. The only time that they're really able to, is when they're in small parties, consisting of 2-4 people, because that seems to be when there aren't enough monsters to handle everyone, AND RM actually have the MP to support smaller parties (8-parties ambushes are just insane in IC, so I tend to avoid them.) RM have access to some very good weaponry to fight, Armor to defend themselves, spells that prove to be very useful when timed right, agility to support their armor, and to allow them good dodging skills and quick movement. Looking at this, they're more than set for melee, except that lack of 1 str point. It seems insignificant, but it really does add up, and if you don't build it up, you're better off just not even buying a sword/polearm in general. Now as for magic, they also lack that one major point in willpower, hindering them behind the other mages, and even worse MP to boot. If you don't up either of them, you're far better off just swinging your sword/polearm around. RM already get good armor to support their lack of vitality, agility to support that armor, and some powerful defensive spells. No matter what build you are, you can increase your defense to insane heights, limiting chaotics' damage to their bare minimum, and even less with FF! Oh, and that 3 dex points carry you a long way, there's not so much of a need to increase that. So, your build choices really just include: Str/MP/Will. But, pumping just one of those stats only determines your what seems to be "true use". Pumping str just means that you're going to depend on Boost, and -maybe- instill if you know what monsters are weak against. If you pump will, HS and the elemental spells are going to be your good friend. To repeat this, that one turn you use instill really isn't worth it, unless you're going to get boosted shortly after (Saving MP for you in the long run, too!) Pumping MP at all gives you one effective choice: status effects. RM get a pretty good ammount of them, and it's going to get even better once they get Fast, because they're already good at dodging! So, to top things off, I highly suggest a mix of either str/will, or will/MP, because you're sure to get the most out of your RM either one. Note - my RM is str/will, and combined with Instill/Boost, he is just one mean attacker. He's also level 37, the highest person I've seen that hasn't beaten Gey yet, with the exception of a couple people (Can't remember you all, sorry!) Last note - you're welcome CC.
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Post by just2slick4u on Feb 5, 2006 20:28:55 GMT -6
Well put, I am making Slicky Claus the RM now n_n
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Manboy
Hunter
butsecks?
Posts: 124
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Post by Manboy on Feb 5, 2006 20:36:39 GMT -6
....I still liked my pure str RM (he was made before instill was added(and one of the few Followers RM even)). I think it was before PoP was added too.
He could dish out some pretty good damage with scythe and claymore.
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Post by Thornreaper on Feb 7, 2006 18:45:55 GMT -6
Yeah, I miss that RM CP we started, it was pretty sw33t, plus we had Vin Diseal and Chuck Norris in the party, that is a combination for kick-assness.
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Post by SmellyCrap on Feb 8, 2006 1:01:26 GMT -6
Note - my RM is str/will, and combined with Instill/Boost, he is just one mean attacker. He's also level 37, the highest person I've seen that hasn't beaten Gey yet, with the exception of a couple people (Can't remember you all, sorry!). My RM was like level 40 when he beat Geyzer because my connection kept dying when I found a decent party. :/
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Post by U. Dye on Feb 8, 2006 7:26:45 GMT -6
Don't you just hate when that happens?
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Post by Rapta111 on Feb 8, 2006 22:09:03 GMT -6
It's situational. If you have a lot of agility, you can heal people that took heavy hits at the end of the last round. If you go with a build that ignores agility, there's a chance those people would die before your turn comes. On the other hand, if you ignore agility, you can heal people that took heavy damage at the start or the middle of the current round. With a heavy agi build, there's the chance that you'll heal people before they get seriously wounded, effectively wasting your turn that round. It comes down to what you'd prefer: Being able to heal people at the start of a round but risk having your spell go off too soon, or being able to heal people at the end of a round but risk having a target (or targets) die before your healing occurs If you go somewhere in the middle, then you get a mix of the pros and cons of the first two builds. Your turn usually comes around the middle, so either your healing is opportune (enough people are hurt to where its worth it) or it's even more frustratingly JUST slower than needed (someone dies the turn right before yours as opposed to several turns before yours). Leading in to that, I can usually do some heavy damage before I have to heal.
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Post by Jumin on Feb 9, 2006 0:22:33 GMT -6
yeah.. depending on the party size and who im partied with, i can off to drags with my nuke+white before i gotta heal..
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