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Post by lordphoenix on Apr 19, 2008 21:05:24 GMT -6
But, who would do the one Mortal Wound hit and be useless from then on? All it's good for is to abuse-kill the last enemy on the battlefield. I'd rather take 100 normal, non MW attacks than 1 MW and fail from then on. Not only is it rather limited in scope, it sounds like the kind of omega final ultimaet attak drivel that is being kept out of this game, and for good reason.
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Assailant
Hunter
All literary men are Red Sox fans. To be a Yankee fan in a literate society is to endanger your life
Posts: 119
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Post by Assailant on Apr 19, 2008 21:30:07 GMT -6
The point of the attack is just a last minute desperation kind of thing. Like, suppose the knight was the last remaining in an average PoP run ambush battle. They were but 3 steps from ToTE and got this battle. Now, the party was being demolished from the start. However, the whitemage, dragoon, and knight were still alive (originally: blackmage, bluemage, thief, thief, knight, whitemage, dragoon). So they slowly take down the foes. However, the whitemage gets hit with a critical for 408 damage, instantly killing it. The dragoon was next, as he ran out of jumps and got jumped himself by the very dragon that killed the whitemage. The dragon and the knight are in a stare down, with the knight having 1 shot left at it. He pulls the Final Thrust and becomes a hero.
The ailments just provide a nasty side-effect that would ward people from using it early. It's the ultimate double-edge technique, an all or nothing situation.
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Post by lordphoenix on Apr 19, 2008 21:33:00 GMT -6
The point of the attack is just a last minute desperation kind of thing. Like, suppose the knight was the last remaining in an average PoP run ambush battle. They were but 3 steps from ToTE and got this battle. Now, the party was being demolished from the start. However, the whitemage, dragoon, and knight were still alive (originally: blackmage, bluemage, thief, thief, knight, whitemage, dragoon). So they slowly take down the foes. However, the whitemage gets hit with a critical for 408 damage, instantly killing it. The dragoon was next, as he ran out of jumps and got jumped himself by the very dragon that killed the whitemage. The dragon and the knight are in a stare down, with the knight having 1 shot left at it. He pulls the Final Thrust and becomes a hero. The ailments just provide a nasty side-effect that would ward people from using it early. It's the ultimate double-edge technique, an all or nothing situation. You just more or less agreed with me that it's a skill that's extremely limited in scope, and the chances of a typical knight having 5 mp to spare in such a sticky situation are slim to none.
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Post by Sur Realis on Apr 19, 2008 21:39:59 GMT -6
*Hopes to retort before LP.*
Hunting Grounds is a game more of realism than ZOMG HEROISM!!1!1! This means, shit happens. Just like in real life. In dramatic stare-downs, between a huge-ass Dragon against a Knight with a stick, in real life, the Knight will go down, especially after the Dragon ate the White Mage and Dragoon. Not to mention that if you MEANT for the skill to do such a thing, that's never gonna happen. I mean, when's the last time such a large party went from Mona to TotE? Seriously? v5 or some shit? Most people will pull off a solo TotE run before that big of a party is ready to make the trek, and then there are the people that haul you there for money in the first place.
Basically, such a move will only be used for a quick final kill at Mona and TotE, which is something that we particularly want to avoid, right? Besides, if Nexus deems that party worthy, the Knight will deal a Double Strike MW or some shit anyway, and if not, try again. It's not THAT far of a run, especially with such a party. Besides, the Dragon would go before the Knight and kill it anyway.
Edit: Damn, LP beat me. >=(
Edit 2: And if I weren't lazy, I'd dig up the texts to support the realism thing.
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Post by Jumin on Apr 21, 2008 10:48:58 GMT -6
hmm im actually really on the fence with this idea but here goes.. so the ease of spells is seen by how much MP it costs to cast with the draining 140 mp to cast psychostorm-3 to the economic 5 mp to use cure-1. well going along with the idea of the ease of casting spells, i was thinking that during battle, lower tiered spells would be casted a little quicker (I guess it could give it more of a real time feel to the game). and the upper tiered spells would just be the default turn order that is in the game right now. status altering spells spells would also just use the current turn order, as well, but that's kind of a kick in the nuts to the BLM, but who cares, they get 3 nat agil already so they're already wuick
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Post by Kyou on Apr 21, 2008 14:23:39 GMT -6
hmm im actually really on the fence with this idea but here goes.. so the ease of spells is seen by how much MP it costs to cast with the draining 140 mp to cast psychostorm-3 to the economic 5 mp to use cure-1. well going along with the idea of the ease of casting spells, i was thinking that during battle, lower tiered spells would be casted a little quicker (I guess it could give it more of a real time feel to the game). and the upper tiered spells would just be the default turn order that is in the game right now. status altering spells spells would also just use the current turn order, as well, but that's kind of a kick in the nuts to the BLM, but who cares, they get 3 nat agil already so they're already wuick I like your idea Jumin, but the super advanced spells of Nuke, Pearl, White, Pyschostorm 3, Healstorm 3 should definately get a delay in turn order if this were implimented. Then I would LOVE it And I'm the only Bluemage thats out speeds ES's anyway, it won't bug me much because I'll know I'll be that much faster with my killer DF1 in PoP2! Also, I think the classification of whether you get a turn order priority boost should depend on the relationship between the mp cost and your max mp. Like if the spell is less than 10% of your max mp you'll go sooner, 10-20% you'll go regular, more than 20% you'll go later.
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Post by Jumin on Apr 21, 2008 14:43:23 GMT -6
damn you kyou! it's the negative speed that gets slapped onto the strong spells that had me on the stupid fence in the first place and i knew someone was gonna say it. i hate you. lol and i was also thinking along the lines of different tiers getting different boosts but i was tired of typing soo yeah, thanks for finishing my idea
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Post by Kyou on Apr 21, 2008 14:51:15 GMT -6
... Just level up and add to mp or agility Sacrifice power for speed no?
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Post by Jumin on Apr 21, 2008 14:58:19 GMT -6
i'm talking about absolute terms where the higher level you are, the easier the lower tier spell is *supposedly* casted. like say we learn ice 3. By that time, it would seem to be a snap to cast off an ice 1.
also, i don't understand how having the cost of the spell compared to your total mp pool would make it easier to cast spells.
your mp pool gets bigger as you gain more exp and level up. thus, the player getting more "intelligent" in being able to cast spells.
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Post by Kyou on Apr 21, 2008 15:47:09 GMT -6
your mp pool gets bigger as you gain more exp and level up. thus, the player getting more "intelligent" in being able to cast spells. Exactly what I was talking about
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Post by Firemaster on Apr 26, 2008 19:20:20 GMT -6
;DThats not much of a bad idea Jummz... So technically what your saying is if you gain a tier 3 spell make it less of a trouble to use the tier 1 spell. But also make like when you first learn your new spell make as though it takes more time.. Then instead of waiting for your next tier spell to go help you go faster with your first 1 make it as though every level you seem to go a little bit faster.. Almost like your gaining experience from using it alot.. Then the more experience you gain using it helps you do it faster... Also,,;,, About RedMages and WhiteMages... I don't see why WhiteMages, mages meant mostly to heal rather than do damage, have the strong spell White; while RedMages, mages meant to do damage with magic and physical abilities don't have a spell like that.. Now I'm not suggesting to take out white from WhiteMages but I'm just wondering why Healing mages have a sper oemaga spell when fighting mages don't
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Post by Sur Realis on May 8, 2008 21:16:45 GMT -6
For Rangers:
Rival Hunger - When a character is Eaten, the Ranger will begin to Hunt the enemy in question when this option is chosen on the Actions dialog box. Gained at a level earlier than Hunt, for it's specific selective timing.
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Post by lordphoenix on May 8, 2008 22:28:43 GMT -6
;DThats not much of a bad idea Jummz... So technically what your saying is if you gain a tier 3 spell make it less of a trouble to use the tier 1 spell. But also make like when you first learn your new spell make as though it takes more time.. Then instead of waiting for your next tier spell to go help you go faster with your first 1 make it as though every level you seem to go a little bit faster.. Almost like your gaining experience from using it alot.. Then the more experience you gain using it helps you do it faster... Also,,;,, About RedMages and WhiteMages... I don't see why WhiteMages, mages meant mostly to heal rather than do damage, have the strong spell White; while RedMages, mages meant to do damage with magic and physical abilities don't have a spell like that.. Now I'm not suggesting to take out white from WhiteMages but I'm just wondering why Healing mages have a sper oemaga spell when fighting mages don't If anything, white needs a nerf. Also, the fighting mages do have a super omega spell, it's called nuke, and it's available to every fighting mage, aka blackmages. Red mages are not meant to be super powerhouses, whining on and on to make them such just paints you as an annoyance or daresay, an idiot.
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Post by Sur Realis on May 9, 2008 5:22:45 GMT -6
;DThats not much of a bad idea Jummz... So technically what your saying is if you gain a tier 3 spell make it less of a trouble to use the tier 1 spell. But also make like when you first learn your new spell make as though it takes more time.. Then instead of waiting for your next tier spell to go help you go faster with your first 1 make it as though every level you seem to go a little bit faster.. Almost like your gaining experience from using it alot.. Then the more experience you gain using it helps you do it faster... Also,,;,, About RedMages and WhiteMages... I don't see why WhiteMages, mages meant mostly to heal rather than do damage, have the strong spell White; while RedMages, mages meant to do damage with magic and physical abilities don't have a spell like that.. Now I'm not suggesting to take out white from WhiteMages but I'm just wondering why Healing mages have a sper oemaga spell when fighting mages don't If anything, white needs a nerf. Also, the fighting mages do have a super omega spell, it's called nuke, and it's available to every fighting mage, aka blackmages. Red mages are not meant to be super powerhouses, whining on and on to make them such just paints you as an annoyance or daresay, an idiot. Notice how he's been trying to get Redmages a super omega spell for a while now, and that it's JUST him? I don't think he gets it. We may need to speak Noob.
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Post by Vahu on May 9, 2008 11:53:33 GMT -6
This one is meant for a new class:
Tri-attack 1 - 14mp - A magical combination attack of the elements: fire, ice and lightning. Attacks with all tier 1 spells which include fire 1, ice 1, and lit 1. Mp cost is determined by the amount of mp cost needed to cast each spell and an additional cost to cast each of them in an single attack. EX: Fire 1, ice 1, and lit 1 each cost 4 mp, and with an additional cost of mp to cast them in a single attack would cost 16 mp. The additional mp cost would equal to half of the amount of mp needed to cast the original tier spell (fire, ice, lit). This would apply to the tier 2 spell of this attack, but I believe that a tier 2 spell may be overpowered, but the high mp cost may make the attack balanced.
MP cost flow:
Tier 1 spell: 4(3) = 12 + 2 =14 mp Tier 2 spell: 18(3) = 54 + 9= 63 mp
The tier 3 spell is way overpowered and really should not be added but I'll show the formula anyway:
Tier 3 spell: 38(3) = 114 + 19 = 133 mp
For Dragoons:
Air Raid - ?? mp - (Area based) A jump command that when used, the dragoon jumps in the air and after a fixed amount of time, (An example would be when half of chaotics or chaotics+ party have already used their turn), the dragoon lands and hits a chaotic for area based attack. In this way, the dragoon would be exposed to attack after his or her turn has ended.
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Post by Rand on May 9, 2008 12:22:57 GMT -6
Redmages are dabblers, whereas the other specialize in a form of magic. Lack of focus on something means you can't have a superawesome spell. Not like we need it anyway.
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Post by Sur Realis on May 9, 2008 12:39:28 GMT -6
Redmages are dabblers, whereas the other specialize in a form of magic. Lack of focus on something means you can't have a superawesome spell. Not like we need it anyway. He didn't listen the first, second, third, or fourth time you said it, Nate. Why try again?
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Post by Takahashi on May 9, 2008 14:10:37 GMT -6
If anything, white needs a nerf. The last thing White needs is yet another reduction to its damage potential, since it's already the worst of the three ultimate spells by far. It's weaker than Nuke in every way (damage output, damage per MP point spent, etc), it doesn't inflict ailments like Pearl (and Pearl is also better than White in all damage aspects, just like Nuke), and by the later sections of the game monsters start resisting its damage type. Hell, some monsters are immune to White, something that can only be said for Pearl and Nuke against... nothing at all. White has a lot of problems, and none of them are anything along the lines of "It's too good". When it comes right down to it, the only really good thing I CAN say in White's favor is that it's better than Harm 3. Yes, the best I can give White is a backhanded compliment, because the Harm series also suck overall. I'd throw in the Lightstorm trio too, but they have a nice AoE+damage combo that puts them above AoE Fire, AoE Lit and AoE Darkfire. As such, they're actually GOOD offensive spells.
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Post by Rand on May 9, 2008 15:46:04 GMT -6
I've an idea for all magick including the Holy series to discuss before The Brotherhood, actually. Spam my MSN when you all are free.
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Post by Jumin on May 9, 2008 16:52:16 GMT -6
i love my white... hurts to see it only do 500 damage on them demon smokes, though... lol what monsters totally resist white?
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Post by Rand on May 9, 2008 16:59:36 GMT -6
Jumins do. Only Rub can effectively take them down.
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Assailant
Hunter
All literary men are Red Sox fans. To be a Yankee fan in a literate society is to endanger your life
Posts: 119
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Post by Assailant on May 9, 2008 17:18:05 GMT -6
Bluemage
Animate-Level 45-45 mp-A chosen monster is now animated and used by the user. Cannot animate bosses.
And Jumins get destroyed by rub.
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Post by Jumin on May 9, 2008 17:34:42 GMT -6
I heard crits totally own Jumins, too. =P
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Post by Takahashi on May 9, 2008 17:47:14 GMT -6
Chewmin: Turns out I mixed up how many have heavy resistance as opposed to immunity. There are a few of those though (Iron Guards, Water/Air Elementals, Gold Guards, Demon Smokes). That's still a bit more monsters than those on the list of having ANY resistance to Nuke and Pearl. That's the main thing that bothers me. White's element has a laundry list of monsters that have some form of resistance to it, while Nuke and Pearl's element has a list of monsters that can be counted on the hand of someone who held on to a grenade while it exploded.
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Post by Jumin on May 9, 2008 18:15:59 GMT -6
well, i'm ok with the white getting resisted. Yeah, Wms do have offensive spells but, they're seen as healers and party support first. At least in my eyes.
and what's bad about the harm spells? i feel like they get the job done.
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Assailant
Hunter
All literary men are Red Sox fans. To be a Yankee fan in a literate society is to endanger your life
Posts: 119
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Post by Assailant on May 9, 2008 18:52:12 GMT -6
The only thing I don't like about harm spells is the mp cost. They're not THAT much more powerful than elemental spells, yet while the difference in mp is small, it can still make a difference.
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Post by Takahashi on May 9, 2008 20:22:09 GMT -6
Well, the MP difference is small, but the damage difference is where things start getting problematic. Harm's power scales along the lines of 100% will/150% will/200% will. All without the option of hitting an area (which admittedly is why Lightstorm is around). Compare that to Fire, Ice, Lit, Poison and Darkfire, which have single target formulas of 100%/200%/300% will on top of AoE options (Poison excepted) to hit more than one monster at a time.
The 'bonus' damage for Harm compared to the others is a little fluky; Harm 1 only gets +2 to +8 damage on top of willpower compared to 5-15 for fire/ice/lit and 20-40 for Darkfire. Harm 2 and 3 have better bonuses than all but Darkfire though. Oddly, both Harm and Poison share this trait, having tier 1 bonuses worse than the others but tier 2 and 3 bonuses better than all but Darkfire.
Overall though, Harm 1, 2 and 3 are worse for dealing damage than any other single-target attack spell of an equal tier. Plus, for the most part Harm spells cost the most MP per tier with only Darkfire 3 versus Harm 3 being a case where Harm's MP cost is noticeably lower (DF1 is 7, harm 1 is 6; DF2 is 24, Harm 2 is 22; DF3 is 48, Harm 3 is 40).
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Post by lordphoenix on May 9, 2008 20:43:11 GMT -6
If anything, white needs a nerf. The last thing White needs is yet another reduction to its damage potential, since it's already the worst of the three ultimate spells by far. It's weaker than Nuke in every way (damage output, damage per MP point spent, etc), it doesn't inflict ailments like Pearl (and Pearl is also better than White in all damage aspects, just like Nuke), and by the later sections of the game monsters start resisting its damage type. Hell, some monsters are immune to White, something that can only be said for Pearl and Nuke against... nothing at all. White has a lot of problems, and none of them are anything along the lines of "It's too good". When it comes right down to it, the only really good thing I CAN say in White's favor is that it's better than Harm 3. Yes, the best I can give White is a backhanded compliment, because the Harm series also suck overall. I'd throw in the Lightstorm trio too, but they have a nice AoE+damage combo that puts them above AoE Fire, AoE Lit and AoE Darkfire. As such, they're actually GOOD offensive spells. I really don't have any issue with white mages or white, I was just responding to his allegation that whitemages are OP and redmages are getting the short end, which is bull shit, pure and simple. And yeah, white should be outclassed by pearl and nuke, because, well, white mages aren't there to blow shit up.
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Post by Firemaster on May 12, 2008 8:24:39 GMT -6
Tower of Vwamosaun...
Enter - go up a few sets of spiraling stairs- cool
Roof - looks cool
Levitation to other Side of tower - WTH is that...
If you look at it all you see is bright Blueish Greenish color.. More like teal in total..
Why not add some stuff there..
I wuz thinking there was a lever just before the Teal crap.. If you dont talk to the lever you fall off and have to go up the stairs again.. If you havent beaten Geyzer you can't push it.. If you beat Geyzer and you push the lever... A crystal like bridge appears.. Then on the other side you see a bunch of people that have tried to go through PoP or are scared to see what monsters lie within... At the end of the bridge would be 2 guards... Do what you guys did to the people to ToTE.. Give them names.. Levels.. All that stuff... Give them text that they say when they talk to you..
Then by the stairs to go down the next set of stairs that lead to PoP, have a Bluemage level 49 sitting there that gives you advice without you even talkinbg to him... Give him the name.. Vwamosaun... And like if you dont talk to him and you just go through the Stairs he automatically stops your character and gives you/your party advice /story about PoP...
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Post by Sur Realis on May 12, 2008 8:58:21 GMT -6
Tower of Vwamosaun... Enter - go up a few sets of spiraling stairs- cool Roof - looks cool Levitation to other Side of tower - WTH is that... If you look at it all you see is bright Blueish Greenish color.. More like teal in total.. Why not add some stuff there.. I wuz thinking there was a lever just before the Teal crap.. If you dont talk to the lever you fall off and have to go up the stairs again.. If you havent beaten Geyzer you can't push it.. If you beat Geyzer and you push the lever... A crystal like bridge appears.. Then on the other side you see a bunch of people that have tried to go through PoP or are scared to see what monsters lie within... At the end of the bridge would be 2 guards... Do what you guys did to the people to ToTE.. Give them names.. Levels.. All that stuff... Give them text that they say when they talk to you.. Then by the stairs to go down the next set of stairs that lead to PoP, have a Bluemage level 49 sitting there that gives you advice without you even talkinbg to him... Give him the name.. Vwamosaun... And like if you dont talk to him and you just go through the Stairs he automatically stops your character and gives you/your party advice /story about PoP... A) This is the new skills thread. B) Thank you for stealing my idea from the Adjustification Station. C) You can't enter Vwomsaun without talking to the King of Hassen after you beat Geyzer.
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