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Post by arlankels on Jan 17, 2006 16:15:45 GMT -6
The 10 basic classes are nice, they cover the whole variety of types one might encounter in a Final Fantasy game, they handle everything you would often encounter.
Yet still some things feel as though they lack, some things are absent which should not be. But where would you place these absent classes, would you put them in the original setup? No.
Instead you would do something along the lines of forcing players to reach a certain point either in the storyline or level. A reward for them would be to be reborn in a new class, or to continue as they are.
-_ Summoners are the outcasts of the magical society, they handle destructive powers which are used to force and enslave the freakish monsters of the Hunting Grounds. Unstable, weird, they often ignore their teammates in their unending quest to gain dominance over everything. Their power is great, unquestionably so, but it comes at a cost. Outside of the Hunting Grounds they can call on no aid from their monsterous slaves, and their magical potency is equateable to an apprentice Blackmage at best. SkillSet- Taming Magical Setup- Akin to a Rangers, no meditate or forcefield, no white magic only black.
-_ Ninja are sometimes looked to for help in assassinations, and yet in the end they are nothing short of a combination of Knights and Thieves. Their capabilities at stealth are equateable to Thieves, yet they carry more armor and do more damage. Yet in the end they can not achieve the capabilities of the thief to utterly butcher their foes. They lack the cutthroat quality, the ability to sneak up behind their enemies and pierce their backs, yet in exchange they have abilities which are equateable to a mixture of the Fighter and Knight classes.
-_ Archers are unerringly accurate, able to fire numerous arrows with pinpoint accuracy on a single target. Their capabilities to stay at the back, using allies to protect them from harm, is both loathsome and yet strategic. Still, when properly used the Archer is capable of cutting a swath through the smaller monsters of the Hunting Grounds with well placed bombardments of their sharp arrows.
-_ The Engineers Guild of Dainara is often heralded as one of the most unusual and yet useful groups, capable of putting forth interesting new innovations. Headed by Cid, they are most well known for their work with sailors to enhance the ships, as well as work to try and create better defenses for the Southern Kreland bridge. Still, being an engineer is a difficult task, marked with massive struggling and in the end seemingly no worthwhile reward. Yet the greater the engineer the more capable they become at enhancing the equipment of their allies, of boosting their team and of innovating some new defensive item which might make a definitive mark in a dangerous fight.
Please don't shoot me ;D
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Post by Hiroshima on Jan 17, 2006 17:46:35 GMT -6
why mention Cid? the only connection we have to FF is icons and spells and any other few things. as well, i don't wanna hear OMG I R TEH SUPAR NINJA!!!!!! -.- and the summoners have been mentioned many many times, as well as archers, each time they have been shot down. besides, putting in engineers would put half of the Whitemages spells to waste, as well as a few select Blackmage spells
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Post by talon on Jan 17, 2006 19:03:13 GMT -6
Actually, all of those have been mentioned before, many times over. But yes, usually ninja and summoner. During that time, we've said no new classes will be put in, my guess is directly due to the workload we currently have, as well as the time and effort, which would be a ton, to introduce those classes into the system and balance them with what exists already.
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Post by arlankels on Jan 17, 2006 19:40:51 GMT -6
Actually, all of those have been mentioned before, many times over. But yes, usually ninja and summoner. During that time, we've said no new classes will be put in, my guess is directly due to the workload we currently have, as well as the time and effort, which would be a ton, to introduce those classes into the system and balance them with what exists already. You speak madness! MADNESS! By the way, Talon...do you still play on THG? I doubt you'd remember me, though...
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Post by just2slick4u on Jan 17, 2006 20:50:08 GMT -6
Talon = Reap (Red BH Robe that can appear to be purple at times, Blackmage, lvl 52 If I am right), recently had a name change, he is now known as Draggoroth if I spelled that right, all round cool guy, one of my favorite BH members...
Reap also has a couple of alts, Primus(Dark Knight Cecil Icon) the pure str Knight at lvl 52 if I am correct, and Troll Midget, I dont know bout Troll Midget because Slick does not associate with people of such names, XD, but everyone should know Reap for his superior intellect...aaaaaand lets make ARCHERS WOOOT!!!!
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Post by wickedcold1 on Jan 17, 2006 21:17:17 GMT -6
seriously though...the Imp class is drastically needed
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Post by Crazy Cloud on Jan 18, 2006 9:48:06 GMT -6
I'd like to see a ciggarette class. You could get new packs of ciggarettes every level and the higher your level, the better brand of ciggarettes you get.
First brand is winstons, then at lvl 10 you get salem black label's (Yuck!), then lvl 20 you get Omegas, then lvl 30 you get KOOL's, then lvl 40 you get newports, then lvl 50 you get Marb Red's, then lvl 60 you get Marb Menthols (You'll have about 2 agility by then lol).
Best class ever, I'd make a lifestyle change if that got put in just to play it all day. (/end sarcasm, /end dramaqueen)
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Post by talon on Jan 18, 2006 11:56:28 GMT -6
Primarly, there is Draggoroth + Primus combo, Troll Midget and Morty Bastard combo, and Arlen©® and Talon©®. Draggoroth is my level 54 Blackmage (Last I knew I got that level.. maybe not.. If not, I am like 100k from 54..), Primus is my knight. My pure builds combo. Troll and Morty are BM and WM, odd levels are mp/wp, even levels are hp/wp. And arlen and talon are my lowbie characters, wm and blm, started from the party system change. I am remaking their original builds. Talon will be mp/wp, and arlen will be about 10 agi, 10 hp, 10 mp, and the rest wp. There. Now you can't say you don't know who I am, even if you don't know anything else about me. Terrible with names.. Throw a hint out, ArlenKels. xD And CC, at level 70 you should upgrade to USA gold, and level 80 USA Gold Menthol. Cheap and strong as hell, like most people want their characters to be. O.o
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Post by Keepa on Jan 18, 2006 12:33:45 GMT -6
Archers Wouldn't hurt....What kinda kingdom has no archers!....a crazy one that's what kind!
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Post by Hiroshima on Jan 18, 2006 14:29:30 GMT -6
or, since we are so behind, we haven't thought of arrows and such? and i remember you ArlanKels
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Post by arlankels on Jan 18, 2006 15:11:26 GMT -6
or, since we are so behind, we haven't thought of arrows and such? and i remember you ArlanKels You are easily remembered, Mister Hiro. Arrows are complex and difficult to make they are. By the way, ever notice how there's a distinct lack of undead manipulation in Final Fantasy games?
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Post by U. Dye on Jan 18, 2006 18:27:52 GMT -6
By the way, ever notice how there's a distinct lack of undead manipulation in Final Fantasy games? That's because necromancers, and the whole prospect of trading your own life for control of the undead... suck. Seriously, do you remember what happens when you cast Cure on a zombie or something in an FF game? How would you like to be the first person to DIE from an HS?
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Post by arlankels on Jan 18, 2006 19:00:51 GMT -6
By the way, ever notice how there's a distinct lack of undead manipulation in Final Fantasy games? That's because necromancers, and the whole prospect of trading your own life for control of the undead... suck. Seriously, do you remember what happens when you cast Cure on a zombie or something in an FF game? How would you like to be the first person to DIE from an HS? why would the necromancer, a living magic using individual, be susceptible to what hurts the undead?
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Post by areon on Jan 19, 2006 12:54:09 GMT -6
Or you could be a necromancer that uses their power to banish undead. Anyone read Sabriel? that's a great book, don't bother with the two additions they aren't as good.
Anyways back to this, they could have spells that only deal with undead and could use equipment like wms as far as maces/shields/maybe light armor or stay with robes. This would be fun to have at certain parts like zombies and evil spirits. Of course this would counter all of the wm offense spells so it won't happen noooooooooooooooooo
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Post by U. Dye on Jan 19, 2006 14:30:48 GMT -6
why would the necromancer, a living magic using individual, be susceptible to what hurts the undead? Well, I heard from someone who's more knowledgable than I am that a necromancer, in exchange for control of the undead, has to become undead themselves. Just... not undead like the creatures they control, but... Well, if you played FF3/6 and you found the Relic Ring, kinda like that.
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Caoineag
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Post by Caoineag on Jan 20, 2006 10:25:06 GMT -6
Eh... well, technically a necromancer is someone who divines by speaking with the spirits of the dead. The whole schtick of actually 'raising' the dead and/or being undead is largely an invention of modern fantasy fiction.
I don't know why, but it really aggravates me when the various -mancers are depicted as actually having magical power over their object of study. A pyromancer is not someones who lobs around fireballs. A pyromancer is someone who patiently watches a candle burn out and tells you the harvest is going to suck this year.
But enough nitpicking. Since this game has ostensibly an independent and original story, 'necromancer' doesn't necessarily follow any established conventions, be they historical or fantastic.
Uf. Well, may as well add at least one semi-on-topic comment. Ninjas are, in my opinion, a bad and very tasteless idea. It feels very weird and tacked on to have only one decidedly oriental class amidst an overwhelmingly occidental backdrop.
"Assassin" wouldn't bother me too much, though the idea of a free-agent assassin is another largely fantastical invention (but hey, it is a fantasy game).
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Post by Takahashi on Jan 20, 2006 10:58:10 GMT -6
Uf. Well, may as well add at least one semi-on-topic comment. Ninjas are, in my opinion, a bad and very tasteless idea. It feels very weird and tacked on to have only one decidedly oriental class amidst an overwhelmingly occidental backdrop. As opposed to Black Belts (barehanded fighters that have Oriental ties)? Is it unacceptable that they too are in the same realm as Fighters (berserker warriors akin to Vikings or Celts) and Knights (Olde France and England's best warriors)?
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Caoineag
Explorer
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Post by Caoineag on Jan 20, 2006 11:20:24 GMT -6
Bah, why do I always forget black belts?
Well, yes, they are oriental, but not as blatantly as ninja (woo, I use the correct plural this time). Unarmed combat is not particularly exclusive to the far east, and it isn't as though black belts currently make any reference to, e.g., chakra, chi, pressure points, etc.
As for fighters, the class is entirely the invention of Gygax, so far as I know, and has no basis in reality (well, other than as an extremely vague word for "a person who fights"), however even if we liken them to a sometime-extant culture (Vikings, you said?), they're still quite acceptable.
I'll concede that the ages of Vikings and knights don't quite overlap, but they do come very close (matter of a decade or two), and more importantly, their areas of activity, cultures, resources, and technology do have some overlap.
At any rate, I don't see a single pagoda on the face of Darlow, nor do the shops carry katana and lamellar armor, and yes, ninja still seem out-of-place to me. Or rather, would seem.
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Post by talon on Jan 20, 2006 12:09:47 GMT -6
You also have to take into consideration that, by timelined events and historic facts, as it's being brought up.. Ninjas just, aren't cool. They're, more or less, thugs with decent sword skill, and honed talents of the art of running away, sorry to say. To put a ninja on this game, would almost be violation of the story, almost. Ninjas are a clan in which they steal and loot, with their own personal pride (like they'd seek out the cause of the world's rot, but instead loot other's lands as it does to enrich their's. >.>), as well as run as things get too tough. A knight, I can see trying to find the cause, and would face his enemies unflinching. The ninja, however, would pretty much instill an auto-run within all battle aspects. And if it was an ambush, as the others keep the monsters occupied, a smoke bomb fills the air, and the ninja abandons the rest of the party. Whoever would be of such class, by that, would never make it passed level one beside from the dainaria mark, and would never beat Vallatio to leave southern kreland. A samurai, perhaps, but it's highly doubtful that would ever come into play, as that would almost be the opposite. They would never run, and would seek out to encounter their enemies, rather than to do what they are suppose to set out to do, which is find the cause of Darlow's chaotic lands. It'd be like.. the v8 characters.. They wouldn't move on, but instead, try to wipe out all of southern kreland.. which is impossible as there is, seemingly to the kingdoms, almost infinite amounts of monsters. Sure, they could kill vallatio, but the class would not move on, as they would be leaving southern kreland still in rampage, and would feel as though they are running, and would sooner suicide than to do that. Needless to say, it's not going in, and that includes your ninja class. xD As for necromancers... it seems as though the best that could be said has already been said, so I'll just enlighten. They're more along the lines of a black mage class, not due to 'nature' or 'magic type'.. they're more or less hybrids in the fantasy realm, their magic revolves around life and death, not just death.. But anyways.. They're quite a powerful sort of magic users, who would entrust their powers over their armament. I could sooner seen them in a robe, and a cap of sort, with a blade tucked within the folds of the arms of their cloak, then holding a shield and mace.. That would be more closer to the lines of a guardian, and not someone as devious and creepy.
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Post by Jumin on Jan 20, 2006 13:15:01 GMT -6
well, i got an idea for the necromancer if it ever gets in.
I was thinking of Voleron and how it'll be able to corrupt us when we fight him... well i was thinking necromancers could have that ability aswell, but is only able to have influence over chaotics that are killed so as to keep it in a necromancer raising the dead kind of thing..
I was thinking that influence of a necromancer is greater in his vicinity than that of voleron and his corruption of monsters post mortem, so it is by this that necromancers have the ability to reanimate corpses for the necromancer's bidding
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Post by talon on Jan 20, 2006 13:27:28 GMT -6
Voleron is a being of a higher power and dimension.. Typically, a god of sorts. What could a mere mortal honestly do to something a god has thus made? A necromancer could not bend and twist a chaotic's mind, and there won't be a new class. For there to be, there is a very, very high chance that all the classes and monsters will have to be rebalanced to accomodate that new class.. Tons of work.. many many hours to do that.. xD
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Post by Sarm on Jan 20, 2006 14:03:51 GMT -6
What could a mere mortal honestly do to something a god has thus made? Then what's the point of playing to the end of the game? Anyway, both samurais and ninjas are the whores of fantasy games. Strip them of the typical FFish versions, what's different from a Samurai and a Knight (aside from the Samurai being shorter) and a thief and ninja (since they were peasant spies)? Saying this in Gamefaqs would probably get me banned.
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Post by Hiroshima on Jan 20, 2006 14:19:59 GMT -6
1) i've read all three Sabriel books. i liked them all =)
2)Vikings did overlap with Knights and such. The Vikings invaded England while England was down waiting for France to invade over the english channel. they beat the vikings off because they surprised them and bottlenecked them through a bridge...so yea, Vikings did exist with Knights chronologically speaking.
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Caoineag
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Post by Caoineag on Jan 21, 2006 11:58:31 GMT -6
I'd said the ages of knights and Vikings didn't quite overlap; the "Age of Vikings" is generally given as 9th to 11th century, whereas knights were only coming in to their heyday around the 12th century, when Vikings were on the decline due to Christianization and whatnot.
Sorry, I didn't write very clearly, nor do I presume to be an authority on the subject.
Anyway, yeah, Vikings and knights did exist simultaneously.
[edit]... and reading back through Taka's post, I realize that I'd misunderstood, and the whole Viking/knight thing had never been called into question in the first place. Sorry.[/edit]
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Post by U. Dye on Jan 21, 2006 12:40:52 GMT -6
Only way I can really see Ninjas in this game is if there was a Ninja Alliance, like "The Shinobi". Kinda like we have the Pirate's Guild. Course, only thing I can see fitting into a Ninja alliance would be Thieves, so it'd be kinda... pointless.
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Post by Hiroshima on Jan 22, 2006 8:45:30 GMT -6
as well, the only reason the pirates exist is due o the pirates who run our lovely boating system.
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Solemn
Explorer
The Legendary...
Posts: 30
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Post by Solemn on Apr 8, 2006 1:01:25 GMT -6
A sage would be nice. One that dabbles in decent levels of magic of both kind. I always have trouble choosing between a WM and BM and blue and red are just not appealing to me. I never checked out a RM or Blue to a high level so I can't really say much. But Sages are indeed nice. Sage would coem in handy in several parties, and since Blue I think has both as I said i'm not totally sure it might be a waste, but I know i'd start a Sage if there was one.
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Post by Sarm on Apr 8, 2006 4:40:42 GMT -6
If Sages were put in, I would delete my BlueMage in a heart beat to make one. That's not a good thing, FYI. As it stands, Red Mages ARE sucky versions of Sages, and the only relation to White Mages that Blue Mages have are Cure, Cure 2, and the Slow series of spells. A class that could throw around all White/Black spells in the game, regardless of Will, is just too much. Dragon Warrior: Shadows of Erdrick added Sages to their class roster. I fought tooth and nail to keep them out but they RUINED the game. With powerleveling, hitting the required level to become one wasn't much trouble if you had the right friends, and the Sages soon outnumbered the Pilgrims (DW version of White Mages). Why would anyone play a predominantly healing class if you can use all healing AND attack magic? Honestly, White Mages as they are right now are probably the closest to Sages you're going to get already. Harm spells that affect living creatures as well as undead, the entire spell set of healing abilities, an area attack that's more powerful than its Ice equivelant (even if learned much later), and slightly better armor than Black or Blue Mages and you're left with what is probably the best soloing mage at higher levels.
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Solemn
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The Legendary...
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Post by Solemn on Apr 8, 2006 4:51:59 GMT -6
Indeed, but Harm is fairly weak until you get Harm 2 I assume cause I ain't that far yet. But if it was a mild magic like it maxes at level 2 magic, would it not be worth makign some pure WM or BM occasoinally so you can have the 3 version of spells?
What do you think CyberVenturer? ^-^
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Post by Sarm on Apr 8, 2006 5:02:58 GMT -6
Here you go. home.earthlink.net/~sfaulk/That documents all of the spells and skills, as well as the classes and what they learn. There is a Harm 3, as well as Lightstorm 3 (even if it is expensive). On another note: I lost the title of having only me in Google. There's a "cyberventurer" in eBay (no capitalization) and I'd never touch that site. The rest is all me. Anyway, nobody should rely on just one person's opinion. I'm no staff member, so don't worry yourself with trying to run ideas by me. Other people can think up and present other arguments that I wouldn't discover on my own. I'm still against the idea of Sage (besides, there are no extra classes going in) but it's still best to hear other opinions.
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