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Post by Takahashi on Apr 7, 2008 14:59:09 GMT -6
Considering that we have threads dedicated to suggestions for new skills, weapon types and the like, I felt it was time for a thread dedicated to any adjustments and suggestions that deal with what is already in the game. It can deal with armor, weaponry, class stats, stat growth, skill set, spell set or anything else that is already found in the game. You don't have to restrict yourself to player-only stuff either; discussing what kind of stats and skills a certain monster should have is also good.
Mind you, the better an explanation you offer in regards to your adjustments and such, the better the chance of them being taken into serious consideration. I'll start things off with an example one player talked with me about:
- Switch the HP gain per level that Dragoons have with Knights.
I like this idea, because for a class that has a design along the lines of "Melee glass cannon", a Dragoon's HP growth is a touch high (currently third best in the game; fourth best if you count Rangers and their wereform-related bonus). This is a small enough change to where it won't have a serious impact on either class, but it will nonetheless help reshuffle HP growth closer in line with what is intended.
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Post by Sur Realis on Apr 7, 2008 16:06:19 GMT -6
-Change Thief stat growth so that every other level they get 4 Agility and 3 Dexterity.
Four Dexterity a Level is too much, period. You have to be severely underleveled, or being a real dolt and attacking Air Elementals to get a Miss as a Thief - my Level 50 had only 16 Misses by Level 25, and practically never missed from then on. Clearly, though, everyone perceives Thieves differently - I imagine a Thief as someone nimble on their feet and precise with their hands - picking a lock and running like hell, for example. As of now, they are only the fastest class by base stats by ONE point - their rivals even have special skills that help them go even faster or not take damage. Dragoon Reflexes, Quicksilver, Jump. All the Thieves have for them is Hide, a -15% chance to get hit (which, for my Thief, is a bare 28 Evasion Speed).
Of course, if the Brotherhood dislikes the idea of them getting an extra .5 Agi per level than Dragoons, the point could be directed somewhere else, such as Strength. Either way, 4 Dex a level is too much - 3 Dex is probably too much for normal classes.
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Post by Kyou on Apr 7, 2008 19:30:17 GMT -6
Time to post something to get major flack for... Fix the Fighter/Knight identity crisis I still say this game is messed up. When I think of what a fighter should be, I see it manifested as this games Knight, and when I think of what a Knight should be, I see it manifested as this games Fighter. What I mean is, when I think of a Fighter, I think of major physical destructifier! (Its a word dammit!) The only moves it has for that sense of thinking are War Cry, Rampage, and Weapons Master. For Knights I think of virtuous leaders with a nice focus on Defense. A Strategic Meleer if you will.
So, what would I suggest? For Knights: Reduce the Damage multiplier for Retort to 1.25 normal damage instead of 2. But increase the chance for a Retort strike to hit. Give Knights the abilities of Block and Leadership. (Leadership needs to be buffed though, or be changed to 4MP cost - +20% Damage Rating and Attack Speed, Stacks) Swap Slash and Chops coding (This gives Knights a never miss attack but without them getting Criticals or Mortal Wounds) Take Frenzy and give it to Fighters.
For Fighters. Give Block and Leadership to the Knights Swap Slash and Chops coding (This gives Fighters a powerful strike that CAN go critical or Mortal Wound.) Get Frenzy from Knight. Change War Cry to make it get stronger as the Fighters health decreases. Ex: at full HP WarCry only increases the Damage Rating by 30%, at 75% HP War Cry increases the Fighters hits by 2, at 50% HP any attack while in War Cry status will never be weak (Can still miss though) and the fighter gets 1 more additional hit, at 25% HP Damage Rating is increased by 60%.
Summary: Knights go from being a powerhouse to being the melee class that can hit multiple targets, make use of their armor and protect allies, have a reliable but not insanely powerful counter, and can increase the overall fighting effectiveness of the whole party.
Fighters go from being the marshmallow meat shield to fierce Warriors the longer a battle goes on.
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Post by Jumin on Apr 7, 2008 19:36:18 GMT -6
i like how the war cry works. tweak it and it gives a nice build up for when fighters rampage when they fall into critical condition.
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Post by Kyou on Apr 7, 2008 20:20:07 GMT -6
Either way, 4 Dex a level is too much - 3 Dex is probably too much for normal classes. I can see Fighters and Knights going going down to 2 Dex, Maybe even rangers, Then the Blackmages and Bluemages going down to 1.
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Kumog
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Post by Kumog on Apr 7, 2008 20:45:07 GMT -6
I don't like the idea of lowering dex across the board for many classes, personally..it looks like it'd be too crippling for people who use heavy weapons and the like, and without enough dex, even Fast 3 wouldn't be much help at TotE.
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Post by Kyou on Apr 7, 2008 20:56:24 GMT -6
Yeah, but it would require some people to consider putting dexterity in their builds, While also putting a higher premium on the classes that are physically weaker but have a better chance to hit.
Also, Knights have enough defensive capabilities as it is, I say no to the increased HP thing unless their offensive power went down somehow (wink wink)
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Post by Erb on Apr 8, 2008 3:11:20 GMT -6
Do you mean Slow 3 instead of fast 3 Kumog?
And hey, I wanna see a thief hit evil spirits with ease, all the dex stat settings for all characters seem fine to me.
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Kumog
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Post by Kumog on Apr 8, 2008 8:35:58 GMT -6
Kyou, let's make an example of a knight build....
Current knight, level 40, with no dex points put in would be roughly 128.
After enlightenment, it'd be at 158. Add in a Knight Sword, and attack speed is at 133. This isn't enough to hit anything without Frenzy reliably at all at TotE.
Now the idea you gave of lowering dex across the board....
Level 40 knight, pre-enlighten. 88 dex, 118 dex after enlighten.
Knight sword makes the attack speed go to 93. No way can Fast 3 make this work well at all for anyone. It'd be way too crippling since 186 attack speed isn't that high at all.
Death Veggie Evasion: 185 Fire Elemental Evasion: 185 Golden Striker Evasion: 160 Lower Demon evasion: 140
Hell, even Ice Dragon evasion is at 72, so a pre-enlightened knight with a claymore wouldn't be able to hit it at all.
Even just using these five monsters as an example, lowering all melee's dex by 1 per level would be insanely crippling, pretty much requiring everyone to re-add 1 dex a level. Soloing anything would be impossible as a melee without a no-miss attack if dex were nerfed for everyone as such.
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Post by Sur Realis on Apr 8, 2008 9:14:11 GMT -6
Okay, but nonetheless, 4 a level is too much for a Thief. Like I said, my Thief has missed at most like 30 times through his 50 levels.
Thirty times. That is insanely dextruous; so much so, I think it's somewhat crippling. There was only one instance where I was glad for my uber Dexterity on my Thief: Fighting Gey. A Knight 10 Levels higher than me couldn't hit him, and I was doing all the damage. That's it. I just think that it could be partially directed somewhere else for more use - 3.5 Dex, 3.5 Agi a level. At 3.5, a Level 40 Thief pre-enlightened has 140, 170 after Enlightenment - plus the practically weightless Backstabber, right there that is better than half of the TotE enemies underleveled. Throw in an extra 20 points for what we currently have and they are at an against to miss.
That's not taking in account Hide's +15% chance to hit - (which I presume to be) equivalent of *28 Dex* for a Level 40 Enlightened Thief at the moment, putting their Dex to be 218 Hidden at Level 40. Uhm. Right. Too much, plzkthx.
Furthermore, the extra Agi would make Hide slightly more useful, since Thieves are perpetually Hidden until Level 50 when they can do something without Hiding - a 15% less chance to be hit, which Dragoons seem to outclass them in this department anyway. Their extra 1 Agi period is not a noticeable amount and makes them feel slower than, hell, even a fairly built Blue Mage. Though, I must say, I only think of Thieves to be nimble on their feet cause it seems like they'd be likely to make the first strike. In fact, that could be a Passive skill later on to make them always attack first occasionally.
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Post by Kyou on Apr 8, 2008 12:37:33 GMT -6
Well something in the Knights stat growth needs to go down. I mean, they get the best stats, best equipment, and the best attacks. Their only weakness is magic but they get enough hp to manage that somewhat and can kill most magic using monsters pretty quickly. (There really aren't that many till IC)
Your right, only 2 per level is a little low, I wish they would do different stat gains for every odd level. Like for Knights +2 Vit +3 Dex on even levels and +3 Vit and +2 Dex on odd levels. Then for thieves, +3 Dex +4 Agi on odd levels, +4 Dex +3 Agi on even levels. Fighters: +4 Str +2 Dex on odd levels, +3 Str +3 Dex on even levels. BM's +4 WP +6MP on odd levels +3WP +7MP even. WM's +6MP +2 Agi on odd levels +5 MP +3 Agi on even BB's + 4 Vit +11 Hp on odd levels, +3 Vit +12 HP on even Goons: +3 Str +2 Agi on odd levels +2 Str +3 Agi on even RM's: +2 Str +3 WP on odd levels, +3 Str +2 WP on even levels Rangers: 9 HP +2 Str on odd levels, 8 HP +3 Str on even levels
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Post by Sur Realis on Apr 8, 2008 16:11:10 GMT -6
CONCERNING DEATHS
Okay, it's fairly obvious that when the entire party dies you all lose 1/3 gold and go back to the last town you visited. This can cause problems - for new people that don't know how to use a bank, and for the Lirea-Anara affiliation people tend to have concerning Rouze training. Hell, even sometimes I skip Hassen completely and am warped back to Hassen Port because I got Ghost raepd. It gets a bit annoying after a while.
So, I suggest that instead of it automatically doing it, upon a full party death you are given the choice of which Kingdom (or major recall point) to spawn at - for a specific price. Starting with Dainan, costing 0 Gold to respawn at, then Lirea, with a small fee, Anara, with a larger fee, Hassen, Mona, then TotE, increasing the Gold it costs - not just from what the character is carrying, but also what they have banked. If they can't afford a destination, that's just too damn bad.
Here's what it'd be useful for:
-Gives a use to all the extra gold. Anyone that stays at Mona for longer than 7 levels knows how easy it is to become rich, and even more so at Skyre. Most of my characters that got to Mona had an extra 10k+ gold on them with nothing worth using it on. I mean, we have multi-millionaires in the game.
-Makes being a low level threatening. I learned the hard way that a character Enlightened at Level 34 can't do shit anyway, and is better off staying at Mona, where it's nice and cold. With the stake of money they already have banked will cause people to think twice before trying to get to point B just cause they are bored of point A.
-Makes bosses something to train for. I think more often than not battles with bosses are lost rather than won - especially cause people attempt them at lower levels than intended, specifically Kaug. For example, a party of 3 Goons, a BM, and a Thief, all below Level 50, almost successfully beat Magora - almost. This makes the almost come into consideration, and rather than winning by pure luck, you must win by strategization, and if need be, higher levels. I don't remember the last time I've seen a Level 18+ fight Kaug. Seriously. It will also cut down on the cocky bastards that gloat about how they got to x point sooo fast and about how great they are when really all they did was hitch a ride on someone - boss battles should be more, y'know, bossy. Not like a normal fight anyone can jump into. If someone runs the risk of you losing 500+ gold just cause they are underleveled, screw them and tell them to train!
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Post by kyoshi123 on Apr 8, 2008 16:17:47 GMT -6
ur true relies becos i beat kaug with 4 lvl 16's and 2 lvl 14
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Post by Kyou on Apr 8, 2008 16:33:18 GMT -6
Heres another suggestion. Make the EXP in DM a little better, and make the crevice beast area slightly harder (buff up those slurpers) in fact, buff up all the small creatures in DM (except the Iron Guards)
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Post by lordphoenix on Apr 8, 2008 20:16:21 GMT -6
Heres another suggestion. Make the EXP in DM a little better Hell no. DM xp is fantastic, perhaps even a little too good. It's not uncommon to average 1000 and more at the iron golems with a full party, and the area tends to be much easier than skyre and GY, for equal to better gains. The areas that need xp buffs, if any, are the ones mentioned. Graveyard is a tough area, skyre is tougher, and most people fresh out of dm find themselves returning to it because the new stronger monsters are too much hassle for the extra 100 they may average on a fight.
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Post by Kyou on Apr 8, 2008 20:20:16 GMT -6
I said make the small monsters in DM a little tougher and increase the exp. I'm mostly annoyed by the huge difference in the small monsters and large monsters both in power and in exp. In most areas the small monsters are insignificant, 80% of the time you pick a training spot because of the large monsters. The small monsters only seem to be in just to delay the end of the fight.
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Post by lordphoenix on Apr 8, 2008 20:26:31 GMT -6
A small hodge podge of other ideas.
I support the knight hp buff, for a class that is supposed to be the ultimate tank, magic eats them alive in record time.
As far as the glass cannon dragoon, try this one on for size: knock them down to 9 hp gain, up strength gain by 1, lower vit gain to 1 per level. They have goon reflexes and damned good evasion, so the idea is that when they do start getting hit they break and they break quick.
Now for some magic. Boost 1 should be changed so that it only raises attack by 25%, and boost 3 by 50%. Let the hits added stay the same for each, and change boost 2 so that it costs 45 mp per cast, and applies boost 1 at full strength but with only 1 extra hit. Do the same for the fast, shield, and barrier lines of spells and their respective stats. Ultimately I just want to see tier 2 boost, fast, shield, and barrier be decently useful, which they are not now. Boost suffers the most neglect of the tier 2 buffs since only melee classes get any use of it.
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Post by lordphoenix on Apr 8, 2008 20:27:50 GMT -6
I said make the small monsters in DM a little tougher and increase the exp. I'm mostly annoyed by the huge difference in the small monsters and large monsters both in power and in exp. In most areas the small monsters are insignificant, 80% of the time you pick a training spot because of the large monsters. The small monsters only seem to be in just to delay the end of the fight. If dm small monster xp gets buffed (not a bad idea) the larger monsters should take a similar hit, as to further achieve the effect of training spot variety. The same could be done for all areas of the game, really.
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Post by Jumin on Apr 8, 2008 22:01:49 GMT -6
As far as the glass cannon dragoon, try this one on for size: knock them down to 9 hp gain, up strength gain by 1, lower vit gain to 1 per level. They have goon reflexes and damned good evasion, so the idea is that when they do start getting hit they break and they break quick. noooo, i think goons are actually fine the way they are. in my experience grounded goons in large parties do get pounded. this is most evident when the goon stays grounded for the boost in the beginning parts of the battle when most monsters are present. they get pounded, but they stay alive with a good chunk of hp gone. but with those new stats, they will get pounded, and then end up taking a dirt nap within the same round. actually i do have a problem with goons.. they suck without boost. regular jumps do more damage in the long run then if they were to use their other skills. (but this problem with strength is largely negated since many people party and goons can easily get a boost with the abundance of BM/BLM around)
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Post by Takahashi on Apr 9, 2008 15:54:17 GMT -6
Well, going from top to bottom:
- Thieves = -0.5 dex, +0.5 agi
Only half of this is necessary, and it's the reduction to dexterity. Yes, it is very hard to miss monsters as a Thief unless you're Slowed or they have absurd amounts of evasion. As such, a slight downgrade in their dexterity growth would be nice. However, they do not need extra agility. Hide's bonus is understated; it's not a convertable boost to evasion speed, unlike the effect of Quicksilver. Even if it were, Hide and Fast spells can stack; Quicksilver and Fast can not.
Hide's bonus is also roughly equal to Dragoon Reflexes; what DR provides in terms of guaranteed misses, Hide provides in having a greater impact on reducing the quality of hit sent at a Thief on top of letting them use their best attacks with a 15% bonus to accuracy. Jump, for all of its lack of balance, still only provides one round of 'improved' damage avoidance per use. Come v8, Jump will no longer be a skill that provides guaranteed and complete damage avoidance either, so Dragoons won't be able to fire and forget, so to speak. Hide has a duration at least four times as long and it's easily possible that the amount of damage avoided during those four rounds could be as much as (or more than) what the one round of Jump avoids.
Long story short, out of all the problems that Thieves have, a lack of evasion and physical damage avoidance are not two examples of such.
- Fighters and Knights should swap roles
I understand where this one comes from, but it banks on the assumption that Darlow revolves around the same tired and overused British mythology that roughly 99% of all medieval RPGs do. ESPECIALLY in regards to Knights having to be noble protectorates who prance around following a code of honor while having a skill set that infers they live to be reinforced fleshy blocks of damage absorption. Same for Fighters always seeming to be single-minded offense machines who bristle at the word 'defense' as if it were a strong vulgarity.
None of these are necessarily true in THG; in fact I'm fairly sure that at the very least, Knights are not intended to follow in the footsteps of their similarly named brethren who use too many words like 'dost', 'thou' and 'wherefore'.
- Introduce 'half stats'
Half stats (getting what amounts to half of a stat point per level due to something like +3 every odd level and +2 every even level) are something I've always been fond of. I'd even made a post suggesting what kind of revised stat growth each class could get on the old, OLD forums. Kyou's list looks to be nice, although he was a jerk and forgot to list Blue Mages. *cough*
- Introduce 'save points'
That is, the idea of having a destroyed party decide which kingdom/town/whatever they want to be revived in, in order to avoid forced party disbanding because someone last stepped foot in Lirea, unlike everyone else who was last seen in Anara. Not much to add to the idea, but I do like the sub-idea of the amount of gold you lose being dependant on where exactly you want to be revived at.
- +3 str per level and +1 vit per level for Dragoons
I also think that this is a bit much, especially the decrease to vitality. Ensuring that their defense would be by far the worst in the game isn't really what they need in terms of balancing. Pretty much every problem related to Dragoons can be traced back to one thing: Jump. As such, a Dragoon's stat layout isn't what needs fixing the most (although they could do with tinkering to HP at the least like noted in the original post).
- Dragoons need Boost to do damage
Well, I'd say that they need Jump to do damage more than anything; without it they're a class that gains 2 str per level naturally and a class that has no useful ground-based attack skills. Without Jump, a Dragoon is marginally better than an unhidden Thief.
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Post by Kyou on Apr 9, 2008 16:02:06 GMT -6
Heh, when I was editing that post, I was trying to do lists of how the new stats would rank each class from best to worse gain for each stat. Blue Mage was originally with WM, but I forgot to put it back on the third time I accidently hit tab then backspace causing me to start all over (I was getting annoyed).
So Blue Mage was supposed to be 6MP on odd levels, 5MP on even. I don't remember what the other stat I had that alternated.
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Post by Sur Realis on Apr 9, 2008 16:27:09 GMT -6
- Thieves = -0.5 dex, +0.5 agiOnly half of this is necessary, and it's the reduction to dexterity. Yes, it is very hard to miss monsters as a Thief unless you're Slowed or they have absurd amounts of evasion. As such, a slight downgrade in their dexterity growth would be nice. However, they do not need extra agility. Hide's bonus is understated; it's not a convertable boost to evasion speed, unlike the effect of Quicksilver. Even if it were, Hide and Fast spells can stack; Quicksilver and Fast can not. Hide's bonus is also roughly equal to Dragoon Reflexes; what DR provides in terms of guaranteed misses, Hide provides in having a greater impact on reducing the quality of hit sent at a Thief on top of letting them use their best attacks with a 15% bonus to accuracy. Jump, for all of its lack of balance, still only provides one round of 'improved' damage avoidance per use. Come v8, Jump will no longer be a skill that provides guaranteed and complete damage avoidance either, so Dragoons won't be able to fire and forget, so to speak. Hide has a duration at least four times as long and it's easily possible that the amount of damage avoided during those four rounds could be as much as (or more than) what the one round of Jump avoids. Long story short, out of all the problems that Thieves have, a lack of evasion and physical damage avoidance are not two examples of such. Wrong. You seem to have forgotten, Taka, by the time you get to ICs it's magic spam. Elemental 3 will do about 100 damage to my Enlightened Thief - she has 820 HP, and with Hide being removed once below 1/3 HP, it takes a mere 5 Elemental 3s backed up with Lit spam from ESs - NOT to mention the fact that she doesn't dodge all that often. Hell, I'm actually proud when my Thief goes a turn without taking more than 200 Damage. A Jumping Goon, even if grounded a turn to get Boost 3, will have ~10-15 turns to not take damage, where as a Thief without White Magic is just gonna lose it in a turn or two, easy. Even IF Dragoons start taking damage from Jump in some form, something should be changed about Hide - without Hide, Thieves are bloody useless until Pressure Attack, and it's a rare moment that I lose Hide because I've had it on for too many turns. I think it's occurred 1/3 of the time I've lost it by damage - after Skyre, Hide becomes -useless-. And not just compared to Dragoons, period. Without a White Mage, Blue Mage, or Red Mage, a Thief is better off skipping the turn Hiding and just duking it out hoping to hell for a Crit or MW. It is not easily possible, in terms of v7, that the damage the Thief avoids for being Hidden for 4 turns is as much as 1 turn of Jumping, by the way. That's just crazy talk. Even on v8. Now, if it were 1 turn:1 turn, maybe. *Loves heckling grammar. x3* Though, on the thought of making Hide better: Improved Cloaking - (Passive) Upon Hiding, enemies are less likely to attack the user, and rather attacking other party members if there are any. <-<; >->; *Runs.* EDIT: Kyou, you were thinking 5 MP/3 Agi to 6 MP/2 Agi. :3
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Post by Kyou on Apr 9, 2008 17:26:41 GMT -6
There was no way I nerfed Blue Mages agility , I'd rather just keep the 5 MP gain ;D
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InfiniteWisdom
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Post by InfiniteWisdom on Apr 9, 2008 19:10:58 GMT -6
As a whole, the ideas are great and i can understand why many of you all sided the way you did. I personally dont like the whole switching stat point gains since the classes i have made so far are perfect as they are and tweaking them, even by a little would mean utter destruction to my classes. In regards to redoing the points, I need to know what im dealing with(testing phase) what THG has to offer so that if these changes occur, i can put points where they need to be at. On this not, IF the BH decides to take up ANY of the ideas posted, be sure to let ME know because i will have to arrange a difference in build and rethink my concept of duoing. This can be said from the Fighter/Knight idea. yes i can see why a knight would be loyal and defend and whatnot but i have repeatedly heard this game is not based on life and therefore any correlations with THG and life is disregarded(such as being able to have arena and do alternatives besides just train is an example). Keeping this in mind, I NEED to know if the classes will be switched around because this logical but bizarre idea completely pwnts my char (the knight V8)since it is training for V8 but if it will become what is now a fighter, i should be training my fighter instead?right? If it would change, it means my fighter needs to become V8? The ideas are stupendous but i see them making a great obstacle in what i already have laid out.
On the other note, a suggestion using the ideals of the game already that i was thinking of before this thread was made involves the terrain. Examples: a mage using an elemental attack like Ice, the dmg + the terrain might make a monster freeze to death(like a stop, even though the % may be low since the monsters have adapted). Using lit in the mountaintops of DM can increase dmg since its closer to the heavens generating more electrical current. Lastly Fire in Tote would increase that can cause burn to the enemy or melting. Of course, reciprocal to this effect considers how the monsters can have the same ability in hurting the party. As for DM, when there is exposure to the high tops, the altitude, put flying beasts there o.0. Later! ~InfiniteWisdom
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Post by Sur Realis on Apr 9, 2008 19:11:51 GMT -6
Str then? Iunno.
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Post by Vahu on Apr 10, 2008 10:40:34 GMT -6
Come v8, Jump will no longer be a skill that provides guaranteed and complete damage avoidance either, so Dragoons won't be able to fire and forget, so to speak. Thank you.
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Post by Kyou on Apr 10, 2008 15:21:16 GMT -6
Fine then, keep knights the same!! Except give them 2x weakness to magic!
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Post by Takahashi on Apr 10, 2008 15:54:34 GMT -6
Wrong. You seem to have forgotten, Taka, by the time you get to ICs it's magic spam. Elemental 3 will do about 100 damage to my Enlightened Thief - she has 820 HP, and with Hide being removed once below 1/3 HP, it takes a mere 5 Elemental 3s backed up with Lit spam from ESs - NOT to mention the fact that she doesn't dodge all that often. Hell, I'm actually proud when my Thief goes a turn without taking more than 200 Damage. A Jumping Goon, even if grounded a turn to get Boost 3, will have ~10-15 turns to not take damage, where as a Thief without White Magic is just gonna lose it in a turn or two, easy. This doesn't mean as much as you make it sound like, since seven out of the other nine classes in the game take just as much damage as your Thief would. Yes, a Barrier-casting magic user can change how much damage any of those seven classes take... but they can do the same for a Thief, so it's a draw in that aspect. Factoring in Enlightenment actually does nothing either; those same seven classes will take the same percentage of magic damage as Thieves. A Knight lasts barely longer than you would under a similar sustained assault (+1 HP a level doesn't add much of a buffer against bursts of 100 damage), as do Red Mages (+9 HP a level just like a Knight and also without built-in magic defense), Rangers up until they manage to get into wereform (after which they can't get bonus defense from Barrier), Blue Mages (less HP per level than Thieves and no inherent magic damage reduction) and any Dragoon who decides to always stay on the ground for the first round (...I'm sure they exist somewhere). So, half of the classes in the game are roughly as vulnerable to getting screwpiled by a lot of magic damage as a Thief is. Four of those classes can do something to circumvent some/most/all of that damage; Knights get to depend on one extra point of HP per level compared to a Thief as their only means of leeway. So, "Monsters turn me into electrocuted, charbroiled ice cubes!" is not something that only Thieves have to worry about, nor are they necessarily the worst off in that scenario when all things are as equal as can be. Improvements will no doubt be made to Hide; one that I've heard about (and am fond of) is that it only wears off when the Thief chooses to end it or the Thief is hit by a crit while hidden. No more losing it due to being nearly dead or it wearing off just because it had lasted enough rounds to qualify for a 'good' duration. A general change I'd like to see is for any ability that requires you to effectively waste a turn before you get to utilize its effects (Hide, Quicksilver, formerly War Cry, etc) will no longer act as such. You'd get an auto-attack after using such skills so that you can at least do something to a monster for that round.
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Post by Sur Realis on Apr 10, 2008 16:35:03 GMT -6
You have a point there, I keep limiting my view to Dragoon vs. Thief. However, even if Knights get blasted by magic, at least the hits that land on them aren't horrible - Dark Paladin Cecil, for example, once took 5 Damage from a Thunder Dragon with Barrier 3, whereas my Thief will take 60-100ish. Without Barrier 3, a Critical will basically end the battle for me, and god knows the more the enemy misses the more the enemy successfully criticals. I believe they do like 300 to my Thief and rarely miss - don't miss enough to make up for their whimsical HP and Vit, which is why I think their Agi should be upped somewhat. Red Mages have Cure going with them, plus a number of buffs to decrease damage they take. Rangers, in their Wereform, become practically invincible with a fair build and someone to toss them an occasional Cure - easily half of the people at TotE. Blue Mages are quick enough to get a good Barrier 3 off to keep them alive then can cast Cure if needed. A Dragoon that stays grounded is suicidal and a waste of space - most Dragoons don't have the sense to stay down and wait for Boost, even.
What I'm trying to say is that, even if all classes are likely to get bumfucked all the same, a Thief is at the minority for the extreme lack of useful skills for fighting, and especially at the beginning of battles.
Either way, I'll stop arguing here.
No, here. Yes. Here. It's nice and cozy here.
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Post by Kyou on Apr 10, 2008 17:34:42 GMT -6
Change the damage formula for BBs so that the extra hits aren't reduced as much. It would make the BB's stand out a little more.
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