Moves towards Battle Strategy

[FenrirXIII]

Like a RAM upgrade is the cheapest and best way to upgrade your computer; My first suggestion is just like so for FF: THG. o.o

As we all know, certain monsters are weak against certain types of damage, (not so much in melee damage, but they all have their various weaknesses-making certain forms of damage more appropriate). Furthermore, we know that right now as it stands, when a full party goes into battle, there really isnt any particular job makeup needed. Because, no matter what type of damage is best for a particular enemy, its not specialized enough to matter.

For example; Larger creatures with very high defense (the few types that knights cannot penetrate) Theives would be best, and dragoons for their high dexterity, critical hit ratios, MW ratios, etc. The thing is, With enough knights, or fighters who have build their characters to decent stats. Essentially, a theif wouldnt be ABSOLUTELY NEEDEd. Good, and bad. Good 'cause if you can't find one to join your party, you're still in good shape. Bad 'cause the theif isnt absolutely needed and therefore possibly replaceable by another job that might be more useful.


Anyway, the easy way to fix it is less monsters, higher levels away from the party members. That way, You need those specific types of damages more often. If you generalize and use a different class you might risk death, therefore you would be forced to bring certain jobs along for certain enemies.

Of course that would mean needing to re-work mob placements when doing random battles...say, certain types of mobs in certain areas of certain dungeons. This way parties can plan out where they want to go to train for EXP, depending on the party setup they can gather up.

Also, Of course. More rare monsters/bosses, and more rare weapons or items dropped from them (% based drops on the items/weapons) OR maybe even Unlockable moves depending on your job Class? That would rock. Quests to destroy certain bosses to obtain such moves. End-game type stuff, ya know? Once you've gotten past the storyline (once its all implemented)

In short, specific enemy placements, higher level differences from suggested player levels for the specific dungeon, which encourages specific party setups. End-game items, rare weapons , only obtainable through quests and boss battles. Bosses that drop these rare items/weapons with their own unique weaknesses to further encourage specific party setups. Unlockable job-specific moves or spells, one boss for each job.

and a cookie for reading all of that <_<;

[Bolt]

I don't see how people get a kick out of downtalkin a class >.>

[Hiroshima]

he didnt downtalk any class Bolt, it was a suggestion, and a fine one i might add.

[talon]

Sorry to shoot down a good chunk of that, but I highly doubt monsters will ever drop anything other than gold. As for the certain types of damage, I think that would be based upon weaponry, and not classes. Such as, axes would be an impacted slash, sword would be slash, pikes/polearms would be a stab, as would daggers, staves and blunts would be impact, etc. This would more or less give red mages probably the biggest boost, as they get a bunch of weaponry choices.

[FenrirXIII]

Yeah, thats what i meant mostly. Damage types, like slashing, piercing, blunt.
Certain jobs use different types of weapons though, so it might be appropriate to give them abilities to utilize strategies based on what they can use.

Red mages would see the most boost in use, yeah. I think they are one of those classes in limbo right now in the current version, having no great qualities to make them worth playing other than variety.

The only other thing is to sever the connection of Melee abilities from MP, and give them a seperate stat. That way melee abilities can be properly assigned to Red mages. Also, if any melee classes or new classes (i.e. paladin or dark knight) were to emerge, seperate MP and TP(?) stats would make them easier to integrate. o.o

[talon]

It's been said before that seperating skills from mp isn't going to happen, basically, as to give red mages melee skills. As well as new classes being put in.

[Kain]

Since most of the weapons in the game are based on real weapons (at least, in name), shouldn't their designation as blunt/piercing/whatever be done on a weapon-by-weapon basis, since not all swords are used primarily for hacking and slashing (and so on). Also, going with the realism thing, shouldn't some weapons be a combination of types, like maces?

As for polearms and spears, I think just about any spear would be a stabbing weapon whereas most polearms (like halberds and stuff) would be for hacking/slashing.

*shrug*

[talon]

Interesting point. Although, almost every sword is primarily for slashing. Some do value the tip, but, most I have seen and used myself, even tip-valued, were slashers. As for blunts, the most damage causable is by the impact force. Spikes on a mace, well, those are really just a side on for menacing appeal, and minor increased damage towards the human body, but hardly note-worthy. I do happen to have a halberd, and the pike top looks more menacing than the axe blade, or hook. So, I image, if it goes dual type, half the damage would be pierce, the other half would be crush (I say crush because, really now, when you beheaded someone with an axe, it really crushed the neck rather than cut. >.>). Who knows. Need more opinions on this.

[Kain]

talon said:

Interesting point. Although, almost every sword is primarily for slashing. Some do value the tip, but, most I have seen and used myself, even tip-valued, were slashers. As for blunts, the most damage causable is by the impact force. Spikes on a mace, well, those are really just a side on for menacing appeal, and minor increased damage towards the human body, but hardly note-worthy. I do happen to have a halberd, and the pike top looks more menacing than the axe blade, or hook. So, I image, if it goes dual type, half the damage would be pierce, the other half would be crush (I say crush because, really now, when you beheaded someone with an axe, it really crushed the neck rather than cut. >.>). Who knows. Need more opinions on this.

I guess I didn't make it clear enough in my last post, but yeah, that's pretty much what I mean (in regards to weapons that could be used for both--like, most swords being for slashing, etc. etc.). Perhaps, if this is put in, weapons that could be used in more than one way could be represented by some sort of percentage (like, a mace is mostly a blunt weapon, like you said, but perhaps it could do a small percentage of piercing damage also).

Dual-type weapons could be also incorporated into abilities involving the use of a weapon. Like, say halberds are designated as doing both slashing and piercing, and a Dragoon is equipped with one. If they want to Jump an enemy that's strong against hacking/slashing attacks, they could have the option of using the pike tip to stab said enemy so that they don't get the damage penalties they would if they slashed it.

[Rapta111]

Yes, this would be an awesome idea... for a sequal to this game.

FFTHG is basically known for its current ways of just kicking the heck out of a huge amount of monsters. Adding in these ideas would seemingly change the current game, which everyone loves, too much.

Although, I do like the idea of physical damage being divided up into more categories. Right now, there's...

1. Magic - Fire, Ice, Lightning, Darkness, Non-Elemental, Holy, Poison

2. Physical - I'm lonely.

With the types of Physical damage, I'd suggest them to be Piercing, Crushing and Slashing, no more than that. To the fact that most of the damage would actualling be Slashing, some of them could be moved into other categories, such as Axes into Crushing.

Also, in with the whole "dominance by mages" subject that many people seem to talk about, here's another idea:

All weapons being able to Pierce, Crush and Slash. Plus, each "stance" has different "bonuses" towards the character. For instance, a character with "crushing" stance when using a weapon, could have slightly increased damage and defense, but still have base amount of hits and accuracy. A person using Pierce stance could have increased damage and accuracy, but base amount of hits and defense. Last, a person using Slash stance would have increased hits and defense, but base amount of damage and accuracy.

Well, that's my idea on this whole thing.

EDIT: I just realized that I TOTALLY ripped this idea off of Runescape.

[Jumin]

i was thinking about nother way the damage could be implemented...
the normal attack damage, THEN crush/slice/etc. damage on top of the normal attack damage, but the added damage would only activiate on a percentage perhaps? or the added damage is a percentage of the damage of the normal attack.

[FenrirXIII]

Hmm.. the stances might be too much. Those borederline the party formation (positions) idea(s), and those have clearly been shot down from ever coming in-game. We'll always stay in our classic line formation for nostalgic FF feel.


Certain jobs might benefit from stances, or maybe even something in the future with dual/team attacks, like what was in chrono trigger. but that is a completely different game.

::Dragoon flys into the air carrying theif with him!::
::they both spiral down, dragoon spear first, theif off the dragoon's back and down into the enemy's neck!::
::bolt does 2 dmg:: <- hows that for putting down thf xD j/k

[talon]

Co-op techs...
Round 1
reap (pure wp)- boost3 primus, primus (pure str knight) - defends or normal attacks a small guy

Round 2
reap and primus - co-ops with a nuke and frenzy combo. Reap's spell powers this sword's power base by that of nuke, and the frenzy does the typical hits at 75% damage of the damage base after adding the nuke enchantment (why I boosted first round)... Do we REALLY need monsters with that kind of health, to the point that stuff like this will be needed on a regular basis?? O.o

[FenrirXIII]

Well, if you think about it. Right now, the only way the game is tough is through mass numbers of enemies. That's how you get exp fastest, cause of being in a large party. Solo is not the least bit practical, true. Because alot of things are really tough unless you raise stats specificaly for solo play.

In short; parties = monsters almost pushovers because; they are not very strong, just lots of little ones and less big ones. The strongest way to beat them is magery, spells with area damage. With that kind of focus on lots of weaker enemies, melee has less of a role in parties.

With fewer but stronger enemies, melee will be more useful, and mages will finaly be forced at some point to play support roles more often than just nuking.

BUT doing this everywhere would change the game completely...like, i mean. Making fewer but stronger enemies spawn in the same manner in every dungeon isnt a good thing either.

[areon]

Fenrir mages aren't as all-powerful as you're implying. If they aren't in a lower lvld area than they should be, doing the area effect takes several spells to take a group usually. That's why it's nice for warriors to attack the larger enemies and soak up dmg. It's really aggravating to get ambushed in an all mage party and watch them drop quick.

[talon]

Two of the greatest parties I have ever been in included arlen, talon, vertigas, shopu, and doc I think. Just that, we did good. As well as taterz, wytnumno, reap, hiro, neo, rico, another bm that I forgot, and axel. It's not a matter of parties, at all, really, but where you are fighting. In the early IC, for example, was the party with vertigas. Kills were quick, exp was quick, we barely needed potions and the likes. While most of the time, when I parties with melees, we got whooped on... As with the other party, half magic, but our primary line of attack was melee. Black mages barely got a turn other than boost, and the knights did the most reaping (yeah yeah, name pun, heard it all before. ).
With the taterz party, we were on the verge on one round ambushes. As for kreland, I'd say it goes really to BMs and knights. DM, I'd say blue mages and and white (iron guard ambushes.. if you can't sleep/healstorm/darkfire, you kind of screw yourself..). Southern skure, I'd more or less say reds and black belts have the better hand. Reds get the defense they need and the magic, and black belts, from what I've seen, damage the defensed monsters quicker than other melees. Where as most of the time, mage-heavy parties, really needed the mona healing after even the weak fights.
Of course, this is all just to my speculation, and with all the parties I've been in since Talon the Black Mage (very first character on an actual hosted game, v5). Believe it or not, but a lot of times my butt was saved mostly by certain classes, in the same areas over and over. I think the primary think we all aren't seeing is the levels of the characters we travel with, mainly, other than to pester higher people for help, and shun off lower people. I don't think I've really seen people actually find that happy medium. I further this, by saying I have yet to ever, EVER hear of anyone living a Ruoze ambush. Everyone always dies, and cries over it. Always too weak or too over powered.

[Taterz]

what about a co-op between characters of the same class? however, dualkeyed will not be able to use these skills (yea yea, i know i wont be able to but fair is only fair, kiddies)

like dragoons could do a double dive, knights could do a cross slash etc.

[Kyou]

Darkfire 3 + Pearl = Dark damage to all enemies + Sleep, Weak, or Poison ;D

Some Instill Element combo for redmage

Pummel Sandwich (Black Belts)

<Insert more combos later>

[Kain]

I'm not necessarily supporting the idea, but perhaps there could be co-op abilities between classes in the final battle(s), rather than the whole game? I mean, considering that the final bosses are supposed to be like "ho noes!!11!1" in terms of power or whatever...

[Sarm]

Well, with the whole "can only beat a boss once" thing, only doing them for the final boss just sounds like wasted effort.

[Rapta111]

Plus the fact that it's going to take a LONG time waiting for enough people to kill Magora, to fight the final boss. I mean, 90% of the characters at the PoP have still yet to kill Magora.