Manboy
Hunter
butsecks?
Posts: 124
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Post by Manboy on Mar 8, 2006 20:28:00 GMT -6
Better yet, as gold could simply be stuck on the web backings or whatever of spiders, and in the fur of wolves... Lets put SOME logic in this.. Is experience a physical embodiment that you can pick up and run off with? Or is it something you go through by, well, living? >.> Quit being so 8-bit minded.. -.- We're ffthg, not 8-bit.. Ya damn loonies. xD What if it was a passive skill that the thief would have like a 20% percent chance (only on critical hits and mortal wounds, so every crit/mw has a 20% chance of this taking effect) to gain like 5-10% of the target monster's exp count? The thief would be performing some extraordinary act of skill and finesse, granting him extra experience. Since thieves don't typically attack the same way every time, like a slashing strike from a warrior or magic attacks from a mage, they could be rewarded for creativity. </elaborated response>
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Post by Takahashi on Mar 8, 2006 21:01:07 GMT -6
As a slight variant of an earlier point, Thieves already have the lowest XP reqs per level. Giving them a skill that in effect lets them level even quicker is a little much. Come a later version, all classes will have identical XP reqs though, so perhaps a XP version of Pickpocket could be implemented.
Gold-wise, things aren't as profitable for a Thief anymore. The party restrictions kill off the primary source of gold for a Thief (the only people they can run from place to place now are people who are as far along in the game as they are). Pickpocket is a comfort, but given that the average gold per monster seems to DECREASE as you get further into the game, it's minor comfort-wise.
Having to choose between the two though would be fairly obvious. For a Thief, the weapon/armor choices are scarce later on, and they're usually inexpensive. Only the Backstabber and Ring of Repelling are big-money items; the other top Thief items combined cost less than the RoR (Backstabber = 6k, RoR = 8k, Melded Leather + Steel Helm + Silver Buckler = 7300). Gold is not a major concern for a Thief.
In my eyes, being able to gain power faster beats out gaining gold faster every time.
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Post by talon on Mar 8, 2006 23:54:12 GMT -6
Dye, I was talking to the person who suggested exp-pickpocket. xD Manboy, I've seen a vampire lord expdrain another monster. Funny as hell, it gained 0 exp. Takahashi, I have came up with two skills for thieves for version eight that will give them a whole new advantage. Adding an expdrain for thieves will make them unparallel, and more powerful than a knight, MAYBE (cap maybe so I don't start getting shit and hell from knight-lovers.. -.- I swear, what is it with some people. xD Can't they just wait and see things unfold before whining at me. >.<), with the plausible outcome of all three hitting together. I'm going to have to reject the idea, really. :\
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Post by U. Dye on Mar 9, 2006 7:51:42 GMT -6
Dye, I was talking to the person who suggested exp-pickpocket. xD Oh. My bad. Manboy, I've seen a vampire lord expdrain another monster. Funny as hell, it gained 0 exp. XD I KNEW IT! I KNEW they could do it to other monsters! I just didn't know how much they would drain! XD Takahashi, I have came up with two skills for thieves for version eight that will give them a whole new advantage. Adding an expdrain for thieves will make them unparallel, and more powerful than a knight, MAYBE (cap maybe so I don't start getting shit and hell from knight-lovers.. -.- I swear, what is it with some people. xD Can't they just wait and see things unfold before whining at me. >.<), I dunno what's up with that. I mean, yeah, I'm really tired of people harping on Knights, but I don't jump on people when they say something's more powerful than one. Kinda wish people would follow that example... Would make THG a lot quieter place, y'know? with the plausible outcome of all three hitting together. I'm going to have to reject the idea, really. :\ No EXP drain for Thieves, huh? Well, sucks to be them, I reckon figure. [glow=red,2,300]-= Red Mages =-[/glow] Runic(10% MP)- For one round, the user can block spells aimed at them using their weapon, and if one of the spells is of the elements Fire, Ice, or Lit, that element gets instilled into their weapon. Note: The MP cost here was pretty tough to think of. Maybe someone else could think of a better one, I dunno. Yeah, this just kinda got ignore'd, so I figured I'd remind people of its existence...
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Post by Kyou on Mar 9, 2006 11:33:58 GMT -6
Your right I did miss that in the 30 post thing ...
anyways I like that skill U Dye, I think it would be better as a passive skill that happened 20% of the time though. Of course the downside would be if you already instilled and the ability changed your element to one that the monsters wasn't weak to..... (That would suck) so if your already instilled it just blocks the magic spell. I also don't see why it wouldn't be able to instill the effects of light and dark magic too, I think that would be an interesting twist in a battle, so long as you can override it by using Instill Element (Say if you got hit with a darkfire spell in a graveyard... not much use).
So recap: No Element Instilled + Runic activated = instill of that element
An Element already Instilled + Runic activated = original spell still instilled.
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Post by Sarm on Mar 9, 2006 12:34:42 GMT -6
Runic would sound neat, but don't monsters only cast spells that are of their element anyway?
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Post by U. Dye on Mar 9, 2006 12:57:46 GMT -6
Well, they usually do, but still, it doesn't mean that the spell being instilled through use of Runic wouldn't be useful on a different monster in the battle. Just an example, Gargoyles cast Fire, which is useful against Ballistic Tigers and Mud Golems. Or in DM, some monsters cast Ice, but there's nothing in DM of the Ice element!
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Post by talon on Mar 9, 2006 20:46:32 GMT -6
Fire on mud golems from gargoyles, ice on creavice beasts for extra damage but not much, fire from wyrms for those SS spiders and gators, lit from ghosts in IC on giga worms (they take super damage from everything, more or less), lit from airs for waters, lit from zombie dragons for ice dragons... The whole purpose I could see in that, is not for hitting weaknesses as when this skill is learned (after instill.. maybe like level 35-40), but rather to save mp cost of the instill.. Imagine, you cast lock2 on a group of larges, or even boost1 on yourself, and come out of the first round with the lock or boost AND instill.. There is that improved instil that carries boost that some players want.
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Post by U. Dye on Mar 10, 2006 13:06:05 GMT -6
I was actually thinking more along the lines of Runic being an active ability, rather than passive... I mean, sure, it costs a tenth of the user's MP, but unless they're a Pure MP RM, it's probably gonna be easier on the MP that way anyway.
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Post by Sarm on Mar 10, 2006 13:41:57 GMT -6
Shhh.
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Post by U. Dye on Mar 10, 2006 15:10:04 GMT -6
Sarm, we both know you were planning to do it anyway...
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Manboy
Hunter
butsecks?
Posts: 124
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Post by Manboy on Mar 10, 2006 18:23:42 GMT -6
I can't wait for Sarm's pure willpower black belt that spams aurabolt or his pure willpower or pure mp ranger. ...but rather to save mp cost of the instill.. Imagine, you cast lock2 on a group of larges, or even boost1 on yourself, and come out of the first round with the lock or boost AND instill.. There is that improved instil that carries boost that some players want. There could be a red mage skill that lets it cast like 2 types of buff/debuff spells at once (not double cast). It would be like casting boost and shield in one turn, only on the red mage, or casting lock and slow on a monster in one turn (an area cast of this might be too strong). The spell would cost like 1.5x more than the total of both spells since it's similar to getting two turns in one. The regular versions of these spells won't stack with these combined forms though. Just a random thought. This idea was mostly thought up out of the red mage's versatility, since they do have quite a few buff/debuff spells for the added versatility.
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Post by Takahashi on Mar 11, 2006 1:03:22 GMT -6
I'd like to see Runic acting a bit more like Celes' version (negates a spell and adds MP to the user equal to the cost of the spell). Imagine investing 10% of your max MP to absorb all attempts to Rub/Demi/*element* 3 the RM for that round. It'd be a serious windfall if the RM was somewhat depleted before using Runic.
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Post by Sarm on Mar 11, 2006 4:53:39 GMT -6
That kind of ability would be pretty awesome, but to be fair it'd have to absorb all party spells as well. Manboy: My Ranger is Pure HP. There's no way you'd see me going for Will or MP on that. Their spells are too lackluster to warrant wanting to use them. And focusing on Will JUST for two abilities I'd likely not use...yuck.
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Post by talon on Mar 11, 2006 13:33:01 GMT -6
Draggoroth says: Kija, I was wondering.. Draggoroth says: How is magic 'dealt' within the game? Is it somewhat like thrown at a being, or just engulfs them right off, or perhaps fall on them, or what? Kija says: I always thought it as engulfing/falling depending on the animations. Something like ice seemed like falling, but something like fire seemed like engulfing.
Kills just about every idea of spell-blocking, and how would the runic skill defend against a spell that appears suddenly around them? Also, on a final note, I have just gone through, and read every word of every post in this thread, as I am working on the skills/spells in v8 (btw, yes, my eyes bleed. >.< Not really.. but may as damn well...). You all realize I have seen at least 20 skills/spells repeated a good 5+ times, especially that runic skill, right? Many of which during Rapta's thread of 'suggested new skills' which was intended so that you all can see what has and has not been suggested already. Guess I'm glad I deleted that thread anyways, as it apparently just took up space. All but one person, I'm assuming, could not bare the thought of seeing what's been brought up before. :\
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Post by U. Dye on Mar 11, 2006 15:17:54 GMT -6
If we went back to look and see if something's been thought up before every single time we thought of something, our eyes would be bleeding too, Reap. You realize that, right?
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Post by talon on Mar 11, 2006 17:02:18 GMT -6
You realized that if the conversations, and repeated ideas were deleted from this thread, it'd have cut out possibly 70% of it? Maybe 75%? I remember cutting this down to 4 pages before.. and people posted the same thing that was on the same page. Tell me exactly when I said your post was made when it was at four pages, and I will consider your most recent post valid.
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Post by U. Dye on Mar 11, 2006 17:09:51 GMT -6
It sure as hell wasn't 4 pages when I posted Runic up there... I think it was the was first post on page 9 or 10 at the time. ...I dunno, might not have been, but that's beside the point.
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Post by Takahashi on Mar 29, 2006 18:32:45 GMT -6
Geez, no one has had ideas for new skills in over two weeks? Anyhow, as I was trying to fall asleep last night, a Fighter skill came to me. -= Perseverance =- Type: Passive Description: The spirit of a Fighter is strong, and it is a spirit that refuses to give up. Indeed, the very notion of surrender disgusts a Fighter to their very core. Similarly, the thought of failing to protect an ally in need is a thought that a Fighter is reluctant to see become reality. As such, at times a Fighter can summon the will to endure in spite of sustaining what should be a fatal blow, all in order to continue protecting a teammate. Rage and the morale that comes from showing a sense of leadership further bolster this willingness to cheat death. In game terms, Perseverence is an ability that can only be triggered if the Fighter is Blocking someone. If the Fighter sustains damage that would kill him or her, then 20% of the time they are instead set to 1 HP. If the Fighter is under the effects of War Cry OR Leadership, this chance is instead 25%. If the Fighter is under the effects of War Cry AND Leadership, this chance is instead 35%.
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Post by Sarm on Mar 30, 2006 1:54:49 GMT -6
That sounds neat. If Fighters are meant to be the courageous leaders of the game, it would be fun to see them stand up to stuff like a true hero, where the others will fall.
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Post by Jumin on Apr 2, 2006 3:55:38 GMT -6
it makes it seem there should be no wounded sprite for sprites, if they were going to fight all out to their last breath.
and i really like the explanation that goes with it. be a life saver for those times the WM is too slow with the cure.. haha
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Post by Takahashi on Apr 2, 2006 9:40:07 GMT -6
it makes it seem there should be no wounded sprite for sprites, if they were going to fight all out to their last breath. IIRC, if War Cry triggers off of Painful Rage, then the Fighter never goes into a wounded state. It's not quite the same thing, but it's still along the lines of 'I don't care if I have internal bleeding and a limb hanging by threadbare tendons, I SHALL NOT FALTER.'
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Rowan
Explorer
LOLFANG-TAN
Posts: 65
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Post by Rowan on Apr 5, 2006 20:58:43 GMT -6
I don't think I've ever seen wounded state once after activating warcry. Although by the time the fighter gets to wounded status theres a very high chance he's already been hit by a critical so..
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Post by U. Dye on Apr 5, 2006 22:16:19 GMT -6
If you see a Fighter's wounded icon, chances are they're either not a very good Fighter, or just got raped up the ass by about 6 crits in 1 round while using Block or LEadership or something. Note: Fighters that are so low-level they don't know War Cry are excluded from this.
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Solemn
Explorer
The Legendary...
Posts: 30
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Post by Solemn on Apr 8, 2006 4:27:56 GMT -6
-Fighters- Commanding (passive)- "Leadership" is able to stack up to 3 times Rush- user must be under "Leadership" and "War Cry", user deals 150% damage and always land a critical Limit Break- user uses a normal attack on target enemy, user can choose how many MP he wants to use, the number of MP used is times by 15 and the sum in percentage is added to the normal attack For example, user decided to use 10 mp with "Limit Break", 15 x 10 = 150 -> 150% 150% + 100% = 250% = Limit Break damage -Whitemages- Autolife- user cast Autolife on ally or self. activates when target is killed, user is automatically revived -Knights- Cripple- does 75% damage to target enemy and inflict slow1 -Redmages- Runes (passive)- when user uses ice, fire, or lit, of any lvl, user automatically uses instill -Bluemages- Darkness- has 90% on working on small enemies and 60% on big enemies, target enemy will always miss when phyiscally attacking Limit break would rock but it would make a Mage OWN bosses if they choose. Use all a mages mp on a boos even a decently low level like my WM. 80 X 15 =1200% Atk Pwr? I could kick Val all across his cath. Sorry! I just re-read his post. FIGTHER skill. I could see that, I still have max MP of 6 on my level ....16 I think fighter. Yeah. 6 X 15 = 90 %....Is that added? If so it would work good but if it becomes your attack power than...No thanks, make it a higher level skill. I read it again... It is added. Withdrawel the last bit of my first modificatoin... I am brain dead with no sleep I swear.
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Post by U. Dye on Apr 12, 2006 22:09:10 GMT -6
First I wanna suggest a modification for Rage.
Rage (however much MP it takes a monster to use)- Aside from all the normal crap it does, also decreases accuracy by about 15%.
Reasoning: Stands to reason that if something's gonna take really wild, really hard swings, the thing won't give half a shit about accuracy. Hell, think about Kaug and stuff. The thing's pure insanity. Who knows if it CARES about whether it actually hits something, as long as it's being really violent in attacking.
Aside from that...
[glow=blue,2,300]-= Blue Mages =-[/glow]
Calm (15 MP) - Either dispells Rage, or decreases a target's attack power and critical hit rate, and increases weak hit rate. Will not stack with Weak.
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Post by talon on Apr 12, 2006 22:56:51 GMT -6
I can see the rage modification being done. But the spell, well.. not really. The only worthwild time of it's use would be on kaug. Everything else, even sand worms, don't have the hp to make it much useful. Not unless it was an area affect, and even then only mildly useful on the very few large monsters that use it. However, the modificiation I cna quite see. Maybe it will be discussed in the next meeting.
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Rowan
Explorer
LOLFANG-TAN
Posts: 65
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Post by Rowan on Apr 17, 2006 20:58:26 GMT -6
First I wanna suggest a modification for Rage. Rage (however much MP it takes a monster to use)- Aside from all the normal crap it does, also decreases accuracy by about 15%. Reasoning: Stands to reason that if something's gonna take really wild, really hard swings, the thing won't give half a shit about accuracy. Hell, think about Kaug and stuff. The thing's pure insanity. Who knows if it CARES about whether it actually hits something, as long as it's being really violent in attacking. You could also argue that a berserker going into a rage not only improves his strength and otherworldly stamina/endurance but also heightens his senses and what may look like a flailing monstrosity is actually a well coordinated death machine. I guess what I'm trying to say is that when you 'rage' or give into fury and whatnot it doesn't always imply lack of motor functions or inability to hit, if it did then slightly better damage would be inferior to steady consistant damage. Also with the acc penalty whats to stop them from using chop. We are talking about the rage ability suggested ages ago and was in the skills summary thread that seems to be eluding me right? Of course I don't have any cannon material on hand to back up these claims but when do we ever. So yeah... *Edit* Just read the mp for monster usage part so feel free to ignore the above. Anyways are there any plans for a semi-rage ability for fighters in the near furture of v8? I think it'd be interesting if implemented in some form of non-gamebreaking goodness.
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Post by U. Dye on Apr 19, 2006 7:36:03 GMT -6
Uh... Fighters DO have a Rage ability... It's called War Cry/Painful Rage. What it does is makes them REALLY pissed off, and enables such abilities as Chop and Lunge.
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Post by Takahashi on Apr 20, 2006 14:32:14 GMT -6
On this general subject, I have come upon an idea.
-= Blue Magic (usable by monsters as well) =-
Berserk 29 MP Targets self, ally or enemy
Has a base 75% success rate regardless of the target's size. If successful, the target gains +50% to damage, but loses the ability to use spells or skills. For a melee-based monster or character, this may not be a big deal. For a spellcaster, it MIGHT be problematic (Black/Blue Mage forced to use their fists/stick/dagger). Berserk only wears off upon the target's death. Otherwise, the only way to get rid of it is to cast one of the following spells:
- Restore, - Dispell 1/2, - Sleep 1/2 (forcibly calming the mind into a resting state neutralizes the magically induced bloodlust).
Berserk will stack with spells/skills like Boost, Fast and Leadership.
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