Mage:meditate vs Melee:rest poll

[just2slick4u]

Well, it is 8AM, and stupid old me is on the forums, loathing in the many battles i have won, bosses slain, friends made, etc, then reading a post i saw that i thanked Rapta, and i remember partying with Rapta one particular time, he was assisting me get my knight to PoP, his 333 BB, and 444 Blkm were both enlightened, i had my thief there, also enlightened, i cannot remember who else was there, maybe it was just us, anyhow you know how PoP is, the second you get close to the hole, BAM, and the dreaded big bold black letters appear to you "AMBUSH!" Well, it happened, all i remember is the whole damn party being wiped out by tier 3 magic and such, Rapta444(the blackmage) was left, now me, being the mage hater i am was about ready to quit and start asking for help to PoP, but Rapta said he had it covered, suprisingly, he floored the whole damn ambush, finishing off a dragon with Nuke just to make it look pretty, what i am getting at is this, Mages can meditate, thus giving them enough MP to cast a nice, juicy tier 2 spell, is some cases more than that, the melee at the other hand, gain 1 MP per defend and rest command, some melee classes can manage with this, others (such as knights and fighters) cannot, maybe this is fair, maybe it is not, what i am proposing is a slight, small, teeny tiny change to defend and rest, SOMETIMES you can ecovor 2 MP, now 3 would be insane, cuz i would render/dive/pummel/slash/jump/backstab/bloodymurder my ass off with that, but 2 sounds fair, i will make a poll for you guys to vote on, this is just my opinion, pick at it as much as you want, but i don't think it is a bad idea for the defend and rest command to grant 2MP instead of 1 20% of the time.

[Mahn]

It should and will remain 1mp. If 2 or more mp is regained, those with only 3 or 4 mp can easily gain it back. We did that as a way Melee classes can regain mp in battle like mages got Meditate. I am a Fighter and nothing is wrong with 1mp per turn with Defend and Rest. Melee classes are used in most battles and you can easily gain 1mp in a matter of mer seconds/minutes. It forces Melee classes to use more strategy like we did the same with mages when taking out mp potions.

[just2slick4u]

So you think your fighter could have won that ambush? i mean rampage can only do so much Mahn...and the 2 Mp would be chance based, like 10%, and only after you have like 10 MP don't disregard it os quickly, i want to see what others have to say about it, it is not wholly a bad idea, but i respect your criticism

[Takahashi]

The only circumstances where I'd be fine with more than 1 MP per Defend and Rest cycle is if melee classes had their MP growth retooled. Perhaps making +1 max MP a levelup upgrade at the cost of three or four bonus points. If you want to eventually get +2 MP per Defend or Rest (possibly +3 if you really overdo it), you'll need to sacrifice points that'd have been spent in strength, dexterity or agility (or willpower if you're a BB/Ranger).

As it stands now, I don't like the 10% chance of getting 2 MP. I'd rather see battles won or lost based on how a strategy unfolds and what type of characters arein the party, not on whether or not a Fighter/Knight/what-have-you gets that double regen.

[Rapta111]

Well, think of it this way:

Melee's regain MP faster Out of Battle.
Mages regain MP faster In battle.

[just2slick4u]

The poll speaks otherwise, and theres nothing wrong with winning battles with strategy, but shit happens, crits happen, people get raped, i am not saying we must live by this chance of 2 MP, it is simply there to help, weather it preserves a life or not is all on the user, but it really could be a good thing.

[demonhunterdaz]

I know what you mean slick, but did you need to say "people get raped" as part of your argument, lol




<spelling mistake>

[talon]

I am a black mage. My character has roughly 360 or so mp. I medtate for an easy 50-60. Now, my knight is roughly the same level as my BM. His mp max is at a low 14 or so. Youre skills also cost, the good ones like puree, cost about 2 mp. My BM's best spells are 100 mp and 140 mp. In this case, my knight has the better chance of doing more damage, and regaining mp quickly to use such skills again, then my BM does to use the spells to equal in damage affectiveness. Not to mention there are a lot more spell types (lit, fire, ice, light, dark, death, etc), whereas all physical attacks are physical. I have a likelihood to hit a strength, and have my damage instantly 1/2'd or 1/4'd, but my knight can easily break through such odds. Given my knight the ability to regain 2 mp in a single round, would make him almost triple as useful as my black mage, especially when using skills such as puree (2 mp), divide (5 mp), frenzy (4 mp).
Melee's are based more on str on damage, mages are based more on wp and mp. All classes need the other stats so forget them, they're useless to calculate. Why give something one class thrives on and needs to even be acountable for, to another?

[Sandlight]

its more like 320 something MP and 11 MP

[talon]

Blah, whatever. The game is down, and the point is still made. I'd hate to see a knight puree every other turn, whereas I can only nuke every third turn. And, this really shouldn't be a vote. This is something where it goes to Admin Opinion and balancing, and in no way player choice.

[just2slick4u]

good point talon, but i am waiting for more poll results, and you act like you cannot regain your health to full with a drain1,2, or 3 if they have one, while still damaging the enemy, while the melee class must defend and rest slowly, turn by turn to regain HP, but still good point, Rapta also made a good point, i am guessing the BH doesn't want this, but the people do. And a better idea, you will only stand a chance of gaining 2 MP after you are enlightened, and another thing, pure/slash/defonce/dice(all costing 2 MP) can miss, magic, never misses...but it is not just knights here, maybe i am looking at this kind of one sided, a dragoon could deal some serious dmg with 2 MP, but still we can reason with it..and thats the thing my dice/defonce/puree is equivalant to your lit/fire/ice, plain and simple and my frenzy is equal to your nuke, frenzy is 4 MP, and regaining 2 MP consecutive turns should be a rare one, btw the poll is just there for me and what the people think.

[talon]

No, I cannot regain my hp fully. Also, defend reduces damage. As well as the fact that I also have lighter and less armor. My knight's is almost doubled that of which my BM has. Not to mention much higher hp. Puree may miss, yes, but typically one monster. I have looked at the code, and it almost promises hits to a degree. As for magic missing, yes, magic can. It is IMMUNITY. And a lot of monsters actually have immunities. That is why you'd never see a BM drain a zombie dragon, or use ice on frost wolves. Pop monsters have insane hp, and resistances to spells, making these knights, goons, fighters, etc, much more damaging. The reason why black mages have the upper hand is because of barrier. That is really it, and only it. We can deal the same damage, take the same turns to recover, and live just as long/short. Pestering for an MP upgrade to melee classes will give them a lot more in the way of strength, and lost of strategy. A BM is only as good as the person plans them out, while melee's are good with just about everyone.
I've seen smart players do the same things and win fights just as well as idiots, with melee classes. I have never seen and idiot be able to compare to a smart mage. Giving such increasements to melees, will simply get them prefered in mage-based areas, such as IC beginning, and DM.

Also, how about we take this to PM, as this thread is filling with posts.

[Sarm]

Please don't. I found this interesting to read.

[just2slick4u]

Talon, last time we had a disagreement in the forums, i got banned so i will chat with you on AIM sometime...