New Magic Spells

[xarith]

I just had the idea one day to maybe have a few new magic spells to add to two different characters lists. I know, these may seem stupid, but just bear with me.
Life 3- 120MP- Redmage- casts a group life spell on the party and restores them to 35% health. Learned at level 55.
Poison Spray- 35MP- Blue Mage- sprays the first enemies in every column with poison doing damage equal to willpower*1.5 and has lasting poison damage dealing damage equal to monster's level/2. Learned at level 32.
Poison Mist- 90MP- Bluemage- Sends a mist of poison effecting every enemy for damage equal to caster's willpower*2 and has a lasting poison damage effect equal to monsters level*3/4. Learned at level 57.
Now, I know that these spells seem overpowered, but they could still be tweaked. Remember, this is only a suggestion.

[Hiroshima]

first off, why would the redmage get a Life3 if the Whitemages wouldn't =/ and i wouldn't redmages geting Life 3 even if whitemages diiiid get it

[xarith]

The reason the Redmages would get life 3 is because of how badly they suck at this point in time. They don't even get life 2, they need a reason to exist.

[Mahn]

xarith said:

The reason the Redmages would get life 3 is because of how badly they suck at this point in time. They don't even get life 2, they need a reason to exist.

That reason for this discussion isn't worth the effort. That is a blatant and weak excuse to try and use. Others have tried it and lost the discussion and crowd. Redmages do not suck right now. You only think they suck because you don't allow them to join your parties because you forcibly choose to let someone better do it (WM, BM, and sometimes BLM). Not to mention, I haven't seen you playing a Redmage into his glory years which makes me think you don't understand how to use them. Experience is everything. Currently, there is not alot of Redmages on but Kija is one of them and sometimes Rand.

[xarith]

I use a Redmage, Mahn. And believe me... they're not that great. They lack the damage capacity of other characters and the healing capabilities of other healers. That's not even beginning to mention their sub-par stats. That is why I believe that Redmages deserve a good spell like "life 3". It would make them much more useful later in the game and make them worth the long haul to get them there.

[Rand]

As a practiced Redmage user from my own Day One, I can tell you right now that Redmages do not suck. You say they need Life3 because they cannot dish out damage to match other classes, and the same for healing? The reason for this is because they are a "Jack of all trades" class. They are not MEANT to be able to kill things in one swift stroke or heal a mortal wound as fast as a whitemage.

Their versatility is the very reason they are useful. They can cut things, heal people, blast things with various magicks. The fact they do not get superhigh stats in anything is due to the fact they do not EXCEL in anything, because Redmages are a SUPPORT class. First and foremost, you must remember this. This is why someone would use a redmage rather than a Knight, or Whitemage, or Blackmage. Because they're a bit of all three rolled into one.

That said, Redmages are fine as they are and not meant to be kings of the field. If anyone disagrees, I'm sorry, but they are meant to be a stand-by attacker, or a stand-by mage. Not a total nuker or a total slaughterhouse.

Besides, Redmages used to get one less Agility point per level a long while back, too. Which personally made it even more challenging

I cannot support the aforementioned idea. And I agree with Hiroshima s well, if a WHITEMAGE cannot get it, a Redmage surely should not. I've survived manya fight, including bosses, where I was the only healer and resurrector, and did just fine with my various heals and Life 1. All it takes is skillful planning and knowing what your limits are in any area.

[Taterz]

I use a Redmage, Mahn. And believe me... they're not that great. They lack the damage capacity of other characters and the healing capabilities of other healers. That's not even beginning to mention their sub-par stats. That is why I believe that Redmages deserve a good spell like "life 3". It would make them much more useful later in the game and make them worth the long haul to get them there.

being the third person that can life, i'd say they're pretty damn useful. not only that, they can backup healstorm, one of two classes that can do so.

rangers can life, but try convincing one to get out and rez you right away. we always wait til the end because we cannot morph back twice.

given the redmage has stat growth slightly better than rangers, they have higher survival than whitemages do, due to access to generally better armor.

so lets recap: they can heal everyone, one of 3 who can revive, good armor/weapon selection, yea they're pretty decent at all. the only problem they face is how you want to build them. build them as pure melee? you're gonna feel pretty dwarfed in the presence of a pure melee. build as a mage? you're gonna feel pretty lame compared to a pure whitemage or blackmage. but alone, they're pretty damn strong even if it does take them awhile.

[Takahashi]

xarith said:

I use a Redmage, Mahn. And believe me... they're not that great. They lack the damage capacity of other characters and the healing capabilities of other healers. That's not even beginning to mention their sub-par stats. That is why I believe that Redmages deserve a good spell like "life 3". It would make them much more useful later in the game and make them worth the long haul to get them there.

Like others have noted, RMs have more than enough on their own to make them useful. Their 'sub-par' stats are actually either the best or tied for the best for a mage class, so I'm not sure where you're getting the 'but geez their stats suck ' from. Willpower alone does not make for a useful magic-user. More to the point, you seem to be ignoring shortcomings that the other three mages have compared to a RM, while stressing the shortcomings RMs have compared to them.

Unlike a Blue Mage, a RM can:

- Revive people, cast Drain magic, not be a complete liability with melee damage in fights where magic damage is hard to dish out, take hits without requiring first aid or a Forcefield/Barrier cocktail, and make use of party-friendly magic like Fast 1, Fast 2 and Healstorm 1.

Unlike a White Mage, a RM can:

- Cast black magic, contribute in fights that require melee damage without using Fast on themselves, take hits without requiring first aid or Forcefield, and better resist status ailments.

Unlike a Black Mage, a RM can:

- Cast white magic, contribute in fights that require melee damage without using Boost on themselves, survive melee damage without resorting to Forcefield + Barrier, better resist status ailments, and have something that resembles a healthy HP pool without putting all of their bonus points into the stat.

Put simply, RMs are far from disadvantaged, no matter how many times someone tries to justify such a viewpoint by comparing RM to purebred classes. I cannot stress this enough:

Red Mage is NOT a pure class; it is a jack of all trades. By nature, RM is not supposed to be as good at something as a class solely designed for that purpose. Red Mage is not supposed to be as good as a White Mage at healing. Red Mage is not supposed to be as good as a Black Mage at magic damage. Red Mage is not supposed to be as good at dealing melee damage as any of the pure melee classes or even Ranger. Attempts to bemoan RM due to any of these things is foolhardy and a complete waste of time.

What RM does do is more than enough to make it useful. The only way that they don't seem like they can hold their own is when you try to force them into a pure mage or pure melee role. You'd have no better luck trying to force WM into a melee monster role, Black Belt into a magic damage role, or Ranger into a dual discipline mage role... but that doesn't make any of those classes suck and be in dire need of improvements, does it?

[Rand]

Exactly, thank you Taka. You definitely stressed the finer points better than I did. If enough people truly felt Redmages needed something else to make them more desirable to play as or more useful towards being balanced, it'd have been brought up long ago. Redmages didn't always have Instill Element, or Fast magic, or Lightstorm. They gained less Agility per level. And before the experience requirements for everyone was pooled towards the area of BLue Mage, every class had it's own sets of exp requirements. And guess which class had the MOST experience to gain per level by far? Yes. The Red Mage.

And despite all of that in the past, STILL they were being used. Because Redmages were fine then and they are fine now. Without a group Life spell. Personally, if some of the whitemages I've seen were more worried about the group than just themselves, perhaps a "Life3" wouldn't be NEEDED, or the Redmage of the group to be the constant healstormer. (Wink wink, whoever knows what I'm talking about gets a cookie) And keep in mind, as I said before..

Even in boss fights before the v8 early releases of the new bosses, in almost every boss I underwent I was the only one with healing or resurrecting power, and I got everyone through. So they cannot suck that badly no matter what anyone says. (This was before we had Fast and Lightstorm magic, too)

[Kyou]

My major beef with redmages is the level that they learn their levels is waylater then the other classes.

[Takahashi]

Well, some of the spells are learned far later than they should be, but the rest are either learned almost as soon as the other mages get them, or they're learned late enough to reflect the 'semi-mage' aspect of RM. RMs get their best spells (Tier 3 element, Cure 3) roughly six levels later than a White/Black/Blue Mage would, which is fair enough. It's just with spells like Boost 2 and Slow 2 that the disparity is glaring (Black/Blue Mages learn Boost 2 in the low 20s while RMs learn it in the mid 30s; Rangers, White Mages and Blue Mages learn Slow 2 in the low 20s while RMs learn it in the low 30s).

[Assailant]

well redmages r ok, but look at what blue mage, black mage, and white mage has. blue mage with pearl, white mage with white, and black mage with nuke. my point is, the mages all have ultimate spells except red mage.so maybe if red mage was given an ultimate spell some time in the late 40s maybe, maybe the ppl that dis the class would stop.

[Rand]

Redmages do not SPECIALIZE in any form of magic, which is why they do not have an "ultimate spell" like the other mage classes. Whites specialize in healing, blacks in elemental, blues in enfeebling. Redmages do just about all of these things. If people don't want to play them, then they can complain when the redmager is alive in an ambush and all the others are dead. Also, this thread is JUST at the point of having been necromanced, so it shall be closed.