The Jujubee Hunter Big Bag o' Ideas

[jujubeehunter321]

I had a few ideas in the past since I played a few more of the Final Fantasies, and came up with a few ideas to help diversify the game.

Classes

Now I know what you're all going to be thinking: We have ten classes already, we don't need anymore!
Well, unless you're from the Brotherhood, I don't give a hoot.

First, I decided on a rather generic one...

The Paladin

The Paladin is your classic combination of both white mage and Knight. Now, most people are thinking that the redmage covers this, but they'd be really really wrong. My particular take on this character leans more to the melee side of combat. He can use swords, axes, and all that good stuff, plus armor. But in addition to Knight-like abilities, he also has an accompanying brand of white magic (I'll think up a good name for this later.) Now in addition to some of the more basic to moderate white magic (he'll NEVER ascend Cure 2), he could have all new skills....in example, say, Bless Sword, which would increase the caster's next attack damage by 3x normal damage, but then must lose his or her next turn. Now, that may seem uber, but I assure you, his rate of learning would be much slower than that of a WM for his spells...his Cure tiers would be like 30 levels apart or so.

Note: I will NOT describe spells that already exist.

[*Level 3: Slash, second hit]
[*Level 5: Cure 1]
[*Level 6: Holy Cross, Cost: 12, Desc.: Using his training, the caster blasts his central target for 120% Holy damage, while other enemies in adjacent tiles receive 80% Holy damage. (Note: Percents based off of normal attack specs)]
[*Level 9: Unwavering Devotion, passive: The Paladin's zeal leads him to sometimes deal +20% damage and/or heal for +20% more HP, Third hit]
[*Level 12: Shield 1, Peep, Slow 1]
[*Level 15: Harm 1, Holy Blade: Player's blade is charged with Holy energy, allowing him to run through an opponent with 180% damage, or 230% against Undead]
[Level 18: Fourth hit]


But as for unbalanced? I deal with that problem with our good friend:

The Dark Knight

Like his juxtaposed counterpart, the Dark Knight is two thirds Knight, one third black mage. Again, only learning basic to moderate spell casting (Only to Tier 2, maybe something LIKE Psychostorm in really high levels, like 39 or so) and able to wield most equipment. Most people OBVIOUSLY wouldn't like these build, complaining that they're either too nerfed or too buffed.

Which brings me to my final class suggestion:

The Ninja

Possibly the iffiest of my suggestions, as it seems that most of this could be accomplished by a thief....I feel as though the main hook for the use of ninjas would be the fact that they could use swords. Unlike the Thief, they'd be more combat oriented. Where they would both deal in sneaky blows, I feel as though ninjas could inflict status effects with their awesome skills. Now this class, although almost a tandem to the Thief, is very different in his abilities (aptly named Ninja Arts). No black magic here, but just sheer skills. Perhaps you could use the shadow model from one of the earlier Final Fantasies as a base?

Now that's all my class suggestions for now. Onto General Suggestions.


Firstly:

Pre-emptive Strikes

Possibly an instant refusal, but hear me out. As anyone with a brain and a copy of any turn based combat game, a pre-emptive strike is where the players gain the advantage of first strike. Like an ambush, but in reverse. In counterpart to an ambush, you cannot fail to run from them, as you're surprising them. The biggest chink in the armor of this idea is the whole "We're Investigators, Not Hunters" speech, but that's easily dismissed: it's common knowledge that the monsters in the Hunting Grounds are violent and aggressive. It would make sense to be cautious and prepared for battle. In fact, you could even argue that because they're aggressive, it therefore makes sense to launch a pre-emptive strike if you encounter an unsuspecting monster or group of monsters in order to complete your mission. So you see, the pre-emptive strike would be a very easy implement to explain if the need arises.

Ah, and the final and most infuriating suggestion:

TREASURE

Now I know what you're thinking. You're thinking that treasure chests are pointless to have in a game such as this. I agree with you; and whoever said that treasure had to come in chests? No, no, I meant more like an item drop system for the monsters you defeat! For example, say you're fighting, oh, I dunno...a gargoyle. When you defeat said gargoyle, there's a 40% chance that you receive, say, Soft or something. Now I know the biggest complaint was probably going to be "But it's impractical to create all those items!" but I NEVER SAID YOU HAD TO DO IT ALL AT ONCE. And you could also add effects like Doom and Petrify (if these exist, I dunno, I have yet to beat Kaug) to make it more interesting. You could also have them drop equipment, say, for example, a defeated imp could drop a leather buckler. And the catch is this: THE PERSON RECEIVING THE ITEM IS THE ONE WHO SLAYED THE MONSTER WHO DROPPED IT.

AHA! I found the editing button.
The Skill lists will come soon....it's far too late to start tonight.

Well, that's all that's in my bag o suggestions for now, so Sayonara. Leave positive feedback and CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. Thank you.

[Rand]

Any kind of criticism and feedback is useful for a board. Especially for things that have been mentioned before and refused by us in previous threads. Like the treasure idea. You DO know the game has never allowed item usage in battle, right? It was like this for a reason. You could reason it out by saying that you're too busy trying to not get slaughtered constantly to worry about chugging a pot. Which brings me to my next point.

Preemptive strikes.

This is The Hunting Grounds. Monsters hunt people, not the other way around. Investigators would do their best to AVOID confrontations as much as possible, since who knows how many more beasts could be lurking around a corner or down the bend ready to be called upon by a single shrill whistle or click? Entire towns have been destroyed by these beasties. Methinks I'd not want to push my luck by trying to force more fights.

Paladins and Dark Knights are exactly what scream Final Fantasy to people right off the bat, when what we want is to get AWAY from that. Besides, a Paladin doesn't have much practical use. Knights are the undisputed lords of Defense, so having them with shield magick on the bent that they're trainee white mages alone doesnt sound workable for me. And if all they had was Cure 1, they'd still be boned outside of middle Death Mountains time without someone with better willpower or casting ability to back them up. Being a Paladin, or a Dark Knight, I'd imagine they'd not have that great a Willpower for their spells, which would mean they'd prolly be better off just swinging their sword. And if Ninja is just a way to say "Thieves with Swords"...what's the use? I could just make Thieves able to use swords, right now, and it'd make more sense than a whole new class for just one feature-change and perhaps a...shadow-technique? Thieves can already inflict a status effect, and more is on the way, so never you fear in that department. Also, "unbalanced" doesnt just mean making a mirror-class to counter If you give a class a skill way too powerful for X level, it doesnt matter what you make in opposition, the class itself is still considered broken.

[Jumin]

but if you really want your paladin, you could always make a strength WM

[lordphoenix]

rand has already countered some of these, but ah well.

jujubeehunter321 said:

Classes

Now I know what you're all going to be thinking: We have ten classes already, we don't need anymore!
Well, unless you're from the Brotherhood, I don't give a hoot.

You should quit proclaiming that you know oh so much, it makes your entire post smack of arrogance. That being said-

First, I decided on a rather generic one...

The Paladin

Note: I will NOT describe spells that already exist.

[*Level 3: Slash, second hit]
[*Level 5: Cure 1]
[*Level 6: Holy Cross, Cost: 12, Desc.: Using his training, the caster blasts his central target for 120% Holy damage, while other enemies in adjacent tiles receive 80% Holy damage. (Note: Percents based off of normal attack specs)]
[*Level 9: Unwavering Devotion, passive: The Paladin's zeal leads him to sometimes deal +20% damage and/or heal for +20% more HP, Third hit]
[*Level 12: Shield 1, Peep, Slow 1]
[*Level 15: Harm 1, Holy Blade: Player's blade is charged with Holy energy, allowing him to run through an opponent with 180% damage, or 230% against Undead]
[Level 18: Fourth hit]

A 120% damage skill with 80% area splash damage at level 6? A 180% - 230% damage skill at level 15? A fourth hit a good 6+ levels before the pure melees gain it? That's not overpowered. That's ridiculously broken.

But as for unbalanced? I deal with that problem with our good friend:

The Dark Knight

Like his juxtaposed counterpart, the Dark Knight is two thirds Knight, one third black mage. Again, only learning basic to moderate spell casting (Only to Tier 2, maybe something LIKE Psychostorm in really high levels, like 39 or so) and able to wield most equipment. Most people OBVIOUSLY wouldn't like these build, complaining that they're either too nerfed or too buffed.

Hay guise, adding more overpowered classes am fix brokeness, mirite? No, you're not.

Which brings me to my final class suggestion:

The Ninja

Possibly the iffiest of my suggestions, as it seems that most of this could be accomplished by a thief....I feel as though the main hook for the use of ninjas would be the fact that they could use swords. Unlike the Thief, they'd be more combat oriented. Where they would both deal in sneaky blows, I feel as though ninjas could inflict status effects with their awesome skills. Now this class, although almost a tandem to the Thief, is very different in his abilities (aptly named Ninja Arts). No black magic here, but just sheer skills. Perhaps you could use the shadow model from one of the earlier Final Fantasies as a base?

The game will be dealing in custom icons quite soon, so if any new classes are added, they won't be using FF icons. Also, this just sounds like a thief with the option to equip swords, especially considering that thieves will receive a good deal of adjustment next version, as will every class. Further class suggestions shouldn't even be trifled with until the new skill trees, stat distributions, and new combat features become apparent.

Now that's all my class suggestions for now. Onto General Suggestions.


Firstly:

Pre-emptive Strikes

Possibly an instant refusal, but hear me out. As anyone with a brain and a copy of any turn based combat game, a pre-emptive strike is where the players gain the advantage of first strike. Like an ambush, but in reverse. In counterpart to an ambush, you cannot fail to run from them, as you're surprising them. The biggest chink in the armor of this idea is the whole "We're Investigators, Not Hunters" speech, but that's easily dismissed: it's common knowledge that the monsters in the Hunting Grounds are violent and aggressive. It would make sense to be cautious and prepared for battle. In fact, you could even argue that because they're aggressive, it therefore makes sense to launch a pre-emptive strike if you encounter an unsuspecting monster or group of monsters in order to complete your mission. So you see, the pre-emptive strike would be a very easy implement to explain if the need arises.

We're here to investigate, and only engage in combat where combat is a necessity. The moment you step into the hunting grounds, you are being stalked by the chaotics. Ambushes are the result of a large group of chaotics laying a trap as you venture further into the area and fight the small groups who are just out for blood, favoring full-on violence over strategy. We're avoiding these things, and if we're going to let sleeping dogs lie where we can.

Ah, and the final and most infuriating suggestion:

TREASURE

Now I know what you're thinking. You're thinking that treasure chests are pointless to have in a game such as this. I agree with you; and whoever said that treasure had to come in chests? No, no, I meant more like an item drop system for the monsters you defeat! For example, say you're fighting, oh, I dunno...a gargoyle. When you defeat said gargoyle, there's a 40% chance that you receive, say, Soft or something. Now I know the biggest complaint was probably going to be "But it's impractical to create all those items!" but I NEVER SAID YOU HAD TO DO IT ALL AT ONCE. And you could also add effects like Doom and Petrify (if these exist, I dunno, I have yet to beat Kaug) to make it more interesting. You could also have them drop equipment, say, for example, a defeated imp could drop a leather buckler. And the catch is this: THE PERSON RECEIVING THE ITEM IS THE ONE WHO SLAYED THE MONSTER WHO DROPPED IT.

Status curing items are more or less unnecessary. Presently, all status effects save poison disappear after battle, and whether more permanent effects are added or not, item use is not a factor in battles. Equipment drops I could see being implemented, but that would pose a problem due to the non tradeable nature of equipment to prevent abuse.

AHA! I found the editing button.
The Skill lists will come soon....it's far too late to start tonight.

Well, that's all that's in my bag o suggestions for now, so Sayonara. Leave positive feedback and CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. Thank you.

You may not call my criticism constructive or positive (I doubt you will since I agree with you on virtually nothing, and only LOL ROBEZ seem to matter to you in subjects of opinion), but ah well. It's there, attack it all you want. I would also venture to suggest less arrogance of tone if you want to be handled with respect.

[Takahashi]

Now, granted that the skill set for the Paladin can be made manageable by way of changing numbers, but it still seems a little much. A class designed to be basically 2/3 Knight and 1/3 WM should not gain hits at a rate superior to every class aside from Thief and Black Belt. An AoE skill at level 6 that is of an element that isn't widely resisted for a decent portion of the game sounds a bit too good, even if the Paladin may well have +2 will growth per level (at least, I certainly hope you decided to only give them that much). The rate at which they learn magic seems in line though; it's noticeably slower than a WM and a bit slower than a RM. Overall the class still looks to be a bit too handy; combining two classes doesn't necessarily mean that the sum must be far greater than the parts involved.

Now as others have noted, the way you deal with a class that is too strong is not to create another class designed to be just as strong. All that does is leave you with two classes that need to be toned down instead of one. So work on toning down Paladin's skill/spell set a bit, then do the same with whatever you have planned for Dark Knight. I can't really pass judgment on Ninja since there's not much to work with, aside from 'Thief + swords' which is something that can be easily done with Thief itself. Once more information is given that may well change.

The idea that investigators would decide to attack chaotic beasts just because of an assumed advantage could well be one of the ways that ambushes occur; some hardy Investigators see the decoy unit(s), go to 'ambush' it, and the next thing they know they're surrounded by festering evil. Basically, the chaotics are of infinite number, and it has been shown that the greater a number of Investigators that show up in an area, the more frequent the encounters with the forces of evil and the more numerous those forces will be. Also, the evil force that controls the chaotics is an omniscient and malevolent entity; there is no tactic or approach that an Investigator can attempt that It will not anticipate and counter-plan for. At best, Investigators may eventually learn ways to avoid or minimize conflict.

An item drop/treasure system is being planned, although how it may shape up is unclear at the moment. Ideally, it'll be set up in a way where those who put in effort get better odds of acquiring an item compared to someone who lets others do the work or ends up taking a dirt nap for 90% of a fight. Such a system is a ways off though, so all that Thieves can steal for now are gold pieces that regenerate themselves.

[Taterz]

but if you really want your paladin, you could always make a strength WM

someone has beat you to it *coughme*

[Krelian]

I was wondering if we should have a topic for new classes SUGGESTIONS... and it could cover builds and skills too. And basic to advanced ones could be sugested... But im afraid to start this thread... Can I?

[lordphoenix]

odin said:

I was wondering if we should have a topic for new classes SUGESTIONS... and it could cover builds and skills too. And basic to advanced ones could be sugested... But im afraid to start this thread... Can I?

See my above message on class suggestions, and this thread is all about class skills. Too late though, you've already made it.

[jujubeehunter321]

Just as a clarifier....I was being an idiot when I posted this thread, so I apologize for the arrogant tone it seems to be portending. But yeah, I've already realized that a good deal of these would not only take forever to comnplete if they were even considerable, and that's simply out of the question. But I'll work harder the next time I post ideas.