New mode of battle!

[U. Dye]

Chain Attack. This idea originated in an AIM conversation between me and Rand. AIM names were removed, but the conversation was as follows:



Me: New battle type: Chain Attack. Chaotics attack as in a normal battle or an ambush (max number of them per party member), but periodically, new ones come in as though someone had Assisted. The adds are worth gold and EXP, but don't get to attack that first round.

Me: Something like this: You attack one monster, it lets out a shriek. Another monster a click away hears it, lets out a shriek. And so on. Now imagine 5 monsters a click, 10 monsters, 100 monsters...

Rand: That many wouldn't show up short of a small army entering the Grounds together

Me: Well, it's the principle. A couple guys gank some monster, then its buddies start coming in... Eventually a limit will have to be reached, but there you have it.

Rand: That may not help the feeling of gridning very much.

Rand: grinding*

Rand: I like the idea, but there must be only a certain few who would do this, I think

Me: But it will help the feeling of "HOLY FUCK! THIS WHOLE PLACE IS TRYING TO KILL US!"

Rand: I know. Meeting a plce in the middle is a little difficult

Rand: place*

Me: How about, a 1% chance of a chain battle appearing just like an ambush would appear (Not 1% of that 10%, but 1% period). Something like 10 monsters per person would be the limit, and once all those monsters have been killed, the battle ends. (Course, those 10 monsters per person would come out in waves of 2 or 3.)

Rand: Tell you what...post it on the forums, with a note stating that Rand endorses the idea to a limit.

Me: Fine.

[Jumin]

wow... this sounds poopy.. i don't want more ES coming into battle..
and this doesn't seem like a very efficient battle either.. especially for you, Dye, cause i know how Divide happy you are...

[Milenko]

I agree with Jumin... that would be kinda annoying

[U. Dye]

Well, you gotta admit... It IS different. It's like a normal battle, except with more EXP and gold at the end, and a bit longer. And unlike ambushes, the monsters don't get a hard-coded chance to get the jump on you, AND they don't all show up at once. Harvest could easily be applied during battle. Plus, it would encourage conservativism among the... less conservative ranks.

Note: Jumin, ES's are gonna be little pansies in once Rub is removed. I should think you'd want MORE of them at that point, so you can rape them more.

[Jumin]

well then.. it would just turn into a bush without the chaotics having to go first..

[Milenko]

that would make a normal bush that COULD kill us into... a damn child rape school...

[InfiniteWisdom]

Hi, I myself support the aspect of integrating this new mode of battle, sounds different and challenging. Who doesnt love a challenge when you can be ownt to death ^_^ hahah(not to all)
I do agree on the fact that there would be a certain limit so that it doesnt go overboard, still battling being the 5th rerun, but yes, sounds creative, i love your idea! =P
~InfiniteWisdom

[hawkus1]

Chiming in , I like the idea , strategy becomes a factor when you are suddenly faced with a whole new stack of enemies to fight, or the possibility of a very serious fight. If you are as strong a fighter or mage as you think you are ,altering your strategy , instead of mindlessly plowing through enemies ,isn't a factor.

Another thought, the older ff games had ambush and surprise battles from time to time, why cant it from time to time be a surprise attack on the bad guys ,where you get a first strike opportunity ?

[Jumin]

it wuold be nice to get the jump on evil spirits, but i don't think we can get pre-emptives because we're investigators and engaging the chaotics is not our first priority in the hunting grounds

[Rand]

In a way, it's not. In the aspect of investigation itself, it is not. In the aspect of claiming vengeance for your people's atrocities visited upon them...*Points to Dye*

[Nemorian]

The Chain Attack does sound interesting, even if a bit annoying. It would make a change, that's for sure. A string of chaotics popping up would sure make things difficult... but what if you emptied the field before all of the extra ones arrived? Would you get a bonus or would they just show up during the next round?

Jumin and Rand do make a good point about Pre-Emptive battles. It hardly seems likely that investigators would go looking for a fight... save a few special cases.

Still, wouldn't making these new modes possible be a lot of work? I honestly know nothing about programming, but I don't doubt it would cause more than a few headaches. There are always things to think of though, like...

Back Attacks, a common theme in most game with THG's style of battle system. Still, aren't they basically a normal battle but giving the monsters, or in this case chaotics, a first strike and the players a lower defense?

Pincer Attacks, which would be a bit like ambushes, really, but without the EXP bonus. You'd probably have a lower attack and/or defense from something like this, and the obvious running restaint. Still, it might be an interesting addition to bother training people that use a thief to flee normal battles while searching for an ambush. (People still do that, don't they?)

Then, of course, you could come up with unusual stuff. Like getting a rare encounter and/or bonus depending on the party leader. Say, a whitemage leading the way might give max HP a temporary 5% boost to everyone in the party, but they would encounter larger chaotics more often, since they see the "wimpy" whitemage leading the way and think it's an easy kill.

Of course, I'm just pulling these out of the air randomly and typing whatever comes to mind. I haven't looked at the planned additions for the next version yet, since it would probably just drive me crazy, and I haven't looked around the other suggestions much... so I apologize if I'm saying things that have been said dozens of times before.

[U. Dye]

nemorian said:

The Chain Attack does sound interesting, even if a bit annoying. It would make a change, that's for sure. A string of chaotics popping up would sure make things difficult... but what if you emptied the field before all of the extra ones arrived? Would you get a bonus or would they just show up during the next round?

You might get a free round to rest up if you killed them QUICKLY, but more would show up before long.

nemorian said:

Jumin and Rand do make a good point about Pre-Emptive battles. It hardly seems likely that investigators would go looking for a fight... save a few special cases.

Well, think of it this way... You can get the jump on the enemy, kill them, and that'll be one less thing in your way later. And, they will probably get in the way later if you don't.

nemorian said:

Still, wouldn't making these new modes possible be a lot of work? I honestly know nothing about programming, but I don't doubt it would cause more than a few headaches.

There would have to be a few details to iron out, but I *am* a programmer, and the algorithm is already writing itself out in my mind right now. Relatively speaking, it's actually not too complicated.

nemorian said:

There are always things to think of though, like...

Back Attacks, a common theme in most game with THG's style of battle system. Still, aren't they basically a normal battle but giving the monsters, or in this case chaotics, a first strike and the players a lower defense?

This sounds disturbingly like the ambushes of old, wherein the chaotics were given one free round to bend whomever over and rape them. But those were changed into what we have today.

nemorian said:

Pincer Attacks, which would be a bit like ambushes, really, but without the EXP bonus. You'd probably have a lower attack and/or defense from something like this, and the obvious running restaint. Still, it might be an interesting addition to bother training people that use a thief to flee normal battles while searching for an ambush. (People still do that, don't they?)

Yeah, this is a bit TOO similar to an ambush, I think. Really no sense in implementing something so close.

nemorian said:

Then, of course, you could come up with unusual stuff. Like getting a rare encounter and/or bonus depending on the party leader. Say, a whitemage leading the way might give max HP a temporary 5% boost to everyone in the party, but they would encounter larger chaotics more often, since they see the "wimpy" whitemage leading the way and think it's an easy kill.

Heh heh. Like lambs to the slaughter... Anyway, this is an interesting point. Might wanna draw Kija's attention to this idea.

nemorian said:

Of course, I'm just pulling these out of the air randomly and typing whatever comes to mind. I haven't looked at the planned additions for the next version yet, since it would probably just drive me crazy, and I haven't looked around the other suggestions much... so I apologize if I'm saying things that have been said dozens of times before.

Eh, very little of what we say anymore hasn't been said before.

[Jumin]

monsters already respawn.. like kaug's boss battle.. only in this new battle mode.. the monsters would respawn with more enemies tagging along

[Milenko]

Dye was born?

[Shog]

...Mmm...I like the idea...It sound cool to me...and fun...

[Kyou]

I want to take this idea a step further. Well, 1 step further, 2 to the right, and 3 backwards.

This is a great idea IMO. It makes the battle less predictable, creates new strategies and a need for conservatism.

There are a couple of other ways I see this as workable. My first suggestion would be to make it a 5% chance of 2 new monsters appearing everytime you directly damage a monster. This would make those high defense, low attack monsters more troublesome (like Golems). Add into acount Boss battles and pretty much every battle is extended by an average of 2 minutes.

Another cool direction that could be taken with this idea is if the BH decided there would be certain points on the map where you would be involved in a "wave" battle. At first instance it would appear like a normal battle, except after the first round the first wave of reinforcements appear, The second round less monsters appear, then a round of nothing followed by another round of the same amount appearing in the second round, finished out by the 5th round bringing full reinforcements. It would be a difficult battle, but since it at a set point you can approach it like a boss battle.

If it is confusing to you heres an example. On the floor below Vals lair the first time you walk through the passage way to the left of the entry stairs, where a mandatory battle takes place. Your attacked by a mix of Golems, Tigers, Gargoyles and Vampires (Valls Bodyguard types). After the first round an equal amount of monsters shows up, the round after that half the amount show, next round nothing giving you a chance to fight off the new monsters, next round that half from the second round show again and the 5th round another full wave shows, after that you have to survive the battle.

Good strategic points could be the one mentioned above, the entrance to the Crevice Beasts in DM, After crossing the bridge to the Dal'r Desert, One at each underground entrance to Rouze (that would be fun!). The Bridge before Junili, and the first time you enter the Titans Domain.

[hawkus1]

I realize that investigators aren't looking for fights , but who is to say an investigator wouldn't stumble upon a group of chaotics ,and catch them off guard ?! At that point they aren't expecting a fight , and the investigator could get a 100 % chance at escape at that point , or a damage bonus . Thus my thought stated before about an ambush on them , since ambushes are common to us . Any thought's ?