On the subject of my mass leveling...

[U. Dye]

Okay, just about everyone who's been to PoP knows that I've just been leveling my ass off for weeks(only another 60 mil tnl on Rose and 85 mil on Dye at the time I'm writing this!), and I've heard such classic and comical things as "Jesus Christ, Dye!", "Go outside Dye!", "Dude, go get laid or something!", and Hiro's request that I hold off on L.60 until he hit 59(which was prolly an attempt to make me, like, not be L.60 before V8).

These made me laugh, 'cept for Hiro's because there really wasn't much funniness to it, and I knew deep down that y'all were joking and wanted me to keep leveling so you'd have a capable meat shield come PoP2(because my hits are weak as hell and all I'm good for is using Divide).

But then, Mett said something along the lines of "You're going to be so horribly overleveled when Version 8 comes out..."

At this point I began to wonder, is there actually some kind of issue going on with me and leveling like there's no tomorrow?

So, that is the point of this topic. I want this question answered. And be honest. Be brutally freaking honest, alright? Be more-brutally-than-Mahn-enter-jamming-his-ban-macro honest. (And keep in mind, whatever you say applies to people like Kain and Sand/Rune, too. They're like 1 level behind me. >_> )

[Sarm]

As long as the next set of monsters is balanced around right after beating Magora and not centered around you, I don't see why there'd be a problem.

If the monsters ARE based off of you, then you just condemned everyone else to be required reaching your level just to be what the game considers average.

~Edit~
Also, it's not so much the level you've reached, but showing how much time you're willing to spend on repetitive grinding. When you reach the next area and begin training off of that instead...

[U. Dye]

Well, even considering my high(er) levels, my stats kinda suck. I mean, Dye has 262 Str and like 230-something Dex, because I put a few too many points into HP and Dex. So, sure, I can land my hits efficiently enough, but they're weak as hell.

As for Rose... Well, her WP should be over 300 by now. It's not; it's approaching 280(although on the bright side, I have plenty of MP to play around with).

[Hiroshima]

i've requested some monster changes based of off your mass leveling actually, and IMO mass leveling past 60 is overboard, it'll make it easier and less enjoyable, hence my suggestions to make the monsters...even harder.

[Mahn]

hiroshima said:

i've requested some monster changes based of off your mass leveling actually, and IMO mass leveling past 60 is overboard, it'll make it easier and less enjoyable, hence my suggestions to make the monsters...even harder.

I'll make sure the monsters get stronger and harder also just because of the incidents. Now that we know it is possible to reach up to the high 50's and early 60's, we can up the difficulty.

[Mettool]

Yeah, youd better stop powerleveling, or everyone's gonna suffer.

[edit] Actually, I think the original intended level for the last boss was 70. I dunno if we're sticking to that plan, but we'd have to make monsters give a ton of exp...

[Sarm]

Oh Dyyyyeeee...

Come over here so I can put my fingers on your neck, please.

[U. Dye]

admin said:

I'll make sure the monsters get stronger and harder also just because of the incidents. Now that we know it is possible to reach up to the high 50's and early 60's, we can up the difficulty.

Incidents? What incidents? *doesn't suppose it would help to say that I powerlevel to compensate for my lower stats* [edit]*shoots Sarm in the face with a 12-gauge*[/edit]

[edit2]Oh, and Mett... Good. I'm going to Hell for this, but I'm sick of people flying through the game in 3 days with their levels in the 20s when SOME of us had to play for weeks to reach ToTE once again. It's getting close to time for some pain![/edit2]

[talon]

I fail to see why we should make monsters more and more difficult because of a few people who overlevel. >.> That would be just like doubling imp's and ogre's in southern kreland, because some people do hang around there somewhat at level 7. If things like this were to happen as it's been put, making them harder and harder because of 'incidents', then it'll sooner or later be that you need to be pulled just to even survive at all in this game, even and especially novice areas like Kreland. Making them harder as said, would only intice people to ask for the help. You'd just be better off putting level caps on areas, where after that level you get no exp/gold from the monsters.

[Mettool]

I was kidding actualy. There's no such thing as over-preparing.

[U. Dye]

*is covered in shotguns, submachine guns, assault rifles, and pistols, with a rocket launcher on his back* Oh good. *goes back to the weapons cache to get a minigun*

[Takahashi]

I propose that in the final areas, monsters have stats based on the level of the party going against them. They'll have base stats and a level. If the party they're facing is, on average, a lower level, then the monsters will have lower stats. If the party has a higher average level, then the monsters have higher stats... except for experience. Whatever XP amount is set for the monster's base level is the maximum amount they give.

So, eventually the party will reach a point where they're too strong for their own good; all extra levels will do is make the monsters harder to kill without increasing the XP they give. Think of it as the Brotherhood's way of saying "Stop dicking around and kill the final boss with the bulging muscles and cataclysmic magic prowess that you've gained through the better part of half a year of grinding."

[Hiroshima]

really, the way i see it, with the blessing the PoP2 monsters should be way tough as it is.

[Sarm]

So in short, punishing people who play the game for a long time. Way to go. Obviously the whole purpose of leveling up is to fight stronger monsters, and to gradually do it with more ease as you get stronger. I know you said it was for the final area only, but if monsters increase in everything but benefit to those that fight them...who is going to want to party with those people? I sure as hell wouldn't if I could avoid it.

[U. Dye]

I concur, Sarm.

Now, making PoP2 monsters more difficult because of a few people(me, Kain and Sand) leveling more than you(the BH) expected is basically punishment for doing the only thing that's left to do after beating Mag. I mean, sure, we COULD make alts and play on those, but some of us(such as myself) often don't play on them for long before relapsing back to our high-L.50 "main" characters, only to simply return to the only thing we have left to do.

Course, I do still like the prospect of PoP2 monsters causing some serious pain for those who try to rush through the game. MWAHA!

[talon]

Trust me, I am ensuring that Pop2 monsters will hurt, a lot. The stats are more around those of titan's, slightly harder. And for those of who never really experience them, yes, even dye and kain have problems with titans, really. They are a force to reckon with. Level 56+ is of a moderately decent level for titans, 60 would be a slightly high decent level, considering they have a strong attack, and curing. That is something a lot of people who probably would like them harder, fail to see. Mass leveling at, say, mona after pop, is overpowered already. But, it's still awesome exp rates, is it not? Does that mean we should double or something the stats of mona beasts? >.> Because it is weaker sections that Dye, and Kain have been training. The monsters around Tote are nerfed down to where both the enlightened will have a slightly challenging time (barely), and where people who are not, aren't at certain doom. If we made monsters all over stronger, just because of a few people, we would only be driving away everyone who aren't those people, and hurting the gaming value and population.
As well, Pop2 monsters will be even more of a force to reckon with, simply on the moves I have gave them, and not the stats. I would be quite incline to show you the working idea of said creatures, and let you know how painful it will be, but sorry all, I can't. Regardless of whether you have all level 55's, or 4 60's and 4 55's or whatever combination of levels in your party, believe me, You will hurt. Everyone is, in a sense, getting exactly what they want, to a degree.

[U. Dye]

He gave them HS, Nuke and Osmose. >_>

J/k about Nuke and Osmose. HS is an almost certainty, though. I HOPE they don't have Osmose, otherwise melee types will be bent over and screwed in the asses until they are dead.

[Kyou]

Thats funny cuz I suggested a very fast monster that only HS'd Osmosed and Drained.

[Takahashi]

sarm said:

So in short, punishing people who play the game for a long time. Way to go. Obviously the whole purpose of leveling up is to fight stronger monsters, and to gradually do it with more ease as you get stronger. I know you said it was for the final area only, but if monsters increase in everything but benefit to those that fight them...who is going to want to party with those people? I sure as hell wouldn't if I could avoid it.

Well, the point of the game is NOT to level mindlessly. The point is to ultimately become strong enough to defeat a great evil that has risen up and plagues the world of Darlow. By the time that the XP 'cap' would come into play on the final area's worth of monsters, you should be more than strong enough to dispose of the final boss. Any levelling past that point is just adding extra veins to already bulging muscles and extra ice crystals to an already fearsome hailstorm of bitter cold (among other things). It's unnecessary, and it would not be for the sake of fighting stronger monsters (there are no stronger monsters at that point).

In almost every RPG, you will eventually reach a point where your opposition reaches a peak and can no longer grow stronger to match your continued growth. FFTHG is no exception to that rule. I'd like to see, at the very least, something that lets you know that you should really stop picking on monsters that are no longer capable of being a challenge to you. You're big, you're bad... and you're still not going after the final boss in spite of the powers you have at your command. I don't much like that train of thought.

That said though, I've reconsidered my idea. Instead of reducing the XP given to everyone, have it be on a player-by-player basis. Let's say that we have a four-member team: a level 68, a level 63, a level 57 and a level 48. They've just finished fighting monsters that are level 60. After the XP is divvied up, each member's share would be 98,000 (I'm not trying for an accurate amount, mind you). Taking the level of each party member into account though, the actual amount that each character would get could boil down as such:

- The theoretical formula is (expected XP amount) / (player level) * (monster level).
- The level 68, being notably higher in level compared to the monsters, gets the least amount of XP (98,000 / 68 * 60, or 86,471).
- The level 63 is also higher in level compared to the monsters. Their share is closer to 98k though, since they're only three levels higher as opposed to eight (98,000 / 63 * 60, or 93,333).
- The level 57, being slightly lower in level, gets more than 98k, but not as much as the level 48 would (98,000 / 57 * 60, or 103,158).
- The level 48, being far lower in level, gets the biggest bonus to their XP (98,000 / 48 * 60, or 122,500).

Players who are higher than the area they're in are still 'penalized', but now it's only them. Players who are lower are rewarded, but again, it's only them. Plus, the quicker they gain experience (and thus levels), the quicker the bonus they recieve after fights shrinks. So powerlevelling still has its place (you can help someone underlevelled catch up even faster), but eventually those people will run into the same brick wall as you do.

To deal with the diminishing returns at higher levels, the amount of XP that characters need to gain a level after a certain point would stop increasing. After level 65 or so, a Thief will always require 20 million XP for a level, a Fighter will always require 30 million, a Red Mage will always require 45 million, etc. That way, characters aren't hit twice (once by decreasing XP on the strongest monsters they can face, once by their TNL increasing every level).

Hopefully under the new system, if you're underlevelled, you'll level faster than you would under the old system. Once you reach the same level as the area, you level at the same pace as the old system, briefly levelling at a slower pace until you hit the magic level that stops your TNL from growing. At that point you go back to levelling at the same pace as someone would under the old system.

[U. Dye]

takahashi said:

Hopefully under the new system, if you're underlevelled, you'll level faster than you would under the old system.

What are you saying, that this system is already in? You say it like it is.

[talon]

I think he said that out of idealism, hopes, and sense of mind in stating of 'Imagine this". Imagine you're in china.. Ok, you're not but 'Imagine you're in china" sort of deal, ya know?

[U. Dye]

Perhaps, but still. He's BH. If Sarm or Kain or someone had said something like that I wouldn't think twice, but anyone BH saying it like it's already done is sufficient cause, I think, to consider(dread) the possibility that it IS already done.

[EDIT] I'd have to hear it from Kija, honestly. Not sure why, but it's just... it's a psychological thing.

[Sandlight]

Is mass lvling really this big of an issue?

[U. Dye]

Apparently, it might be.

[Kija]

Nothing like this has been done yet, for we have plenty of other work to finish. Although, whether something like this will be implemented, is not for sure either. I am not going to say what I think of it yet though, because I would rather discuss over the issues with the other members first.

[U. Dye]

Well, that... KINDA puts me at ease... But not completely because that means it MIGHT be done...

[talon]

I'd really hear it from Kija before making a considerable judgement on something, as really nothing gets put in until he puts it in. When Kija says it, then worry and dread it.

[U. Dye]

talon said:

I'd really hear it from Kija before making a considerable judgement on something, as really nothing gets put in until he puts it in. When Kija says it, then worry and dread it.

Thank God, I'm NOT alone...

[Takahashi]

My proposal remains just that, a proposal. If we somehow figured out how to make such a XP system work, and it was decided that such a system is even needed, it _might_ go in. As Kija noted, there are more pressing matters to attend to than a refined XP system, so it's not something that would be seen any time soon (if at all).

[Mahn]

With that said and done, no need to continue. Gets kind of tiresome looking at the same 2-4 people posting. Take it to PM, hippies.