I have been challenged.

[Rand]

XGod has declared that until I beat the original Final Fantasy with just one character, I am not The Man. Therefore, the single RedMage challenge begins. I only need to know...can I be allowed to class change into the Wizard, or no?

[Sur Realis]

Hell no. You are going to breeze through the middle half of the game, why make it so that the end quarter is easy too?

And, I declare you are not The Manly Man until you beat FF1 with 4 White Mages -NO MAGIC-. =)

[icestol2m]

though realis's point stands valid, you may what the hell is the point of not getting the best out of your character, you can do as you please with him

[lordphoenix]

romashi said:

Hell no. You are going to breeze through the middle half of the game, why make it so that the end quarter is easy too?

And, I declare you are not The Manly Man until you beat FF1 with 4 White Mages -NO MAGIC-. =)

That's a cakewalk. Solo thief plz k thx.

[Sur Realis]

Sorry to disappoint you, but not rly. To stand a viable chance against Astos, 4 White Mages without magic would have to hit Level 28ish for another hit - and thusly a higher chance to deal Criticals (which at that point would be around 5% per attack.) The 4 White Mages would have to deal around 7 Crits to Astos, if I remember correctly. The person that is doing the 4 Black Mages No Magic challenge had to go to Level 23 and fight Astos... 70 times, IIRC, before he actually won. Last I checked up on him he was working to Level 50 to beat Lich (On Origins, mind you, harder for him.)

[lordphoenix]

romashi said:

Sorry to disappoint you, but not rly. To stand a viable chance against Astos, 4 White Mages without magic would have to hit Level 28ish for another hit - and thusly a higher chance to deal Criticals (which at that point would be around 5% per attack.) The 4 White Mages would have to deal around 7 Crits to Astos, if I remember correctly. The person that is doing the 4 Black Mages No Magic challenge had to go to Level 23 and fight Astos... 70 times, IIRC, before he actually won. Last I checked up on him he was working to Level 50 to beat Lich (On Origins, mind you, harder for him.)

A solo thief has to go to level 26 or 28, I forget which, for the extra hit. Depending on luck, a solo thief may have to fight astos well over 100 times. Any more objections to deflate?

[Sur Realis]

The Solo Thief also gets EXP at 4x the pace and can just hold A, whereas 4 White Mages go much less efficient holding A and are ~slower~.

And when I'm not at school computers and have access to GameFAQs I'll pull the math out of my ass to see if a solo Thief is better than 4 White Mages no Magic.

--Edit--

Alright, I'm feeling lazy right now so I'm only using the Level 50 stats.
WM | Average | Minimum | Maximum

HP: 717 | 608 | 850
Str: 38 | 23 | 54
Agi: 38 | 23 | 54
Int: 54 | 44 | 64
Vit: 44 | 25 | 59
Luk: 39 | 29 | 54
Hit%: 54 | 54 | 54

Th | Average | Minimum | Maximum

HP: 708 | 580 | 866
Str: 46 | 38 | 54
Agi: 50 | 42 | 59
Int: 38 | 22 | 54
Vit: 37 | 21 | 54
Luk: 64 | 64 | 64
Hit%: 103 | 103 | 103

Thieves have the distinct advantage of more Hits, and assuming you aren't doing RNG abuse, more Str. Their HPs are too close together to make a notable difference, but White Mages have better Vitality.

Basically, all it comes down is 4 Characters vs. 1 Character, which somewhat leans towards the 1 Character for a good amount of time, particularly for Leveling up 4x as fast, but in the end it does equal out more or less. However, 4 Thieves vs. 4 White Mages/No Magic, the 4 Thieves are clearly at the advantage.

Solo Thief and Four White Mages/No Magic can be viewed as two different types of difficult. The Thief, you must have the patience to go through a lot of trial and error, and the White Mages you must have the patience to grind hours on end.

Oh, and I checked, and the person that is doing 4 Black Mages/No Magic died on Astos 71 times, and is currently fighting Earths at about 12k EXP an hour going for Level 42+. boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=522595&topic=34792022 If you are curious on reading on it.

[lordphoenix]

romashi said:

The Solo Thief also gets EXP at 4x the pace and can just hold A, whereas 4 White Mages go much less efficient holding A and are ~slower~.

And when I'm not at school computers and have access to GameFAQs I'll pull the math out of my ass to see if a solo Thief is better than 4 White Mages no Magic.

--Edit--

Alright, I'm feeling lazy right now so I'm only using the Level 50 stats.
WM | Average | Minimum | Maximum

HP: 717 | 608 | 850
Str: 38 | 23 | 54
Agi: 38 | 23 | 54
Int: 54 | 44 | 64
Vit: 44 | 25 | 59
Luk: 39 | 29 | 54
Hit%: 54 | 54 | 54

Th | Average | Minimum | Maximum

HP: 708 | 580 | 866
Str: 46 | 38 | 54
Agi: 50 | 42 | 59
Int: 38 | 22 | 54
Vit: 37 | 21 | 54
Luk: 64 | 64 | 64
Hit%: 103 | 103 | 103

Thieves have the distinct advantage of more Hits, and assuming you aren't doing RNG abuse, more Str. Their HPs are too close together to make a notable difference, but White Mages have better Vitality.

Basically, all it comes down is 4 Characters vs. 1 Character, which somewhat leans towards the 1 Character for a good amount of time, particularly for Leveling up 4x as fast, but in the end it does equal out more or less. However, 4 Thieves vs. 4 White Mages/No Magic, the 4 Thieves are clearly at the advantage.

Solo Thief and Four White Mages/No Magic can be viewed as two different types of difficult. The Thief, you must have the patience to go through a lot of trial and error, and the White Mages you must have the patience to grind hours on end.

Oh, and I checked, and the person that is doing 4 Black Mages/No Magic died on Astos 71 times, and is currently fighting Earths at about 12k EXP an hour going for Level 42+. boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=522595&topic=34792022 If you are curious on reading on it.

Solo thief is more difficult that four white mages no magic. That is the claim that you are trying to debate, and there is no sense trying to debate it. the white mages may have to grind longer, but you have the distinct advantage of four units, who can hit quite as well as a thief on a physical attack, take that from years of FF1 experience.

[Sur Realis]

Buuut the Thief doesn't have to grind quite as long to get to the goal to defeat x boss, which is generally the same as the White Mages. After a certain point, you could just hold A/X and apply Potions when necessary, but not exactly for White Mages.

They are more or less equally difficult. It depends on how you look at it to see something more difficult than not. To me, grinding for 33 hours to get to a point to fighting a boss is more difficult than fighting a boss for 3ish hours trying to get some good luck.

[Taterz]

so is thief considered the weakest class on FF1? if it is, then damn dagolar for making this game way too much like FF1. i've only personally played FF1 for like, 20 minutes but i can see many ways how its similar to THG

[Sur Realis]

Basically. As you see up thar *points* you'll notice they basically are White Mages without magic. However, upon Class Change, they become actually fairly useful, being able to wield a menagerie of equipment, and the only class to wield... the 3rd best weapon, I believe it is.

[lordphoenix]

taterz said:

so is thief considered the weakest class on FF1? if it is, then damn dagolar for making this game way too much like FF1. i've only personally played FF1 for like, 20 minutes but i can see many ways how its similar to THG

Thieves are pretty decent in FF1, especially if you aren't doing stupid challenge runs. They're outclassed by the other melees though, especially the LOL BROKEN black belt/master.

[lordphoenix]

romashi said:

Buuut the Thief doesn't have to grind quite as long to get to the goal to defeat x boss, which is generally the same as the White Mages. After a certain point, you could just hold A/X and apply Potions when necessary, but not exactly for White Mages.

They are more or less equally difficult. It depends on how you look at it to see something more difficult than not. To me, grinding for 33 hours to get to a point to fighting a boss is more difficult than fighting a boss for 3ish hours trying to get some good luck.

You're talking tedium. I'm talking challenge factor. Both are TEDIOUS in different ways, the thief is the more CHALLENGING game.

[Sur Realis]

Well, its a matter of point of view. If you want challenging, try the guardian challenge.

"...Here's the rules. My party will consist of one WM and 3 BM's. If, at any time, a BM is higher than half the WM's level, I must kill him off as quickly as possible, and I can do no harm to the enemies until the BM is down.

For boss fights: Garland, Pirates, Wizards, Astos, Vampire, Lich, Eye, Kary, Zombie Dragon guarding the tail, Kraken, Blue Dragon guarding warp, Tiamat, Lich2, Kary2, Kraken2, Tiamat2, and Chaos, only the BM/BW's can deal damage to the bosses. The WM/WW is only allowed to heal/protect them.

I've thought about it for a while, and I think I'll have the most fun playing this on Origins, because the main point of this challenge is for difficult boss fights, and they have double HP. Also, Life/Life2 will work in battle, and TMPR (Steel) / Saber are available to complete this at lower levels.

Just to spice it up a bit at the end, only the WM/WW is allowed to equip a Ribbon." ~Diamond Dragon, who did it originally. boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=522595&topic=40010237

DD was able to take on the Peninsula of Power at levels 5/3/3/2 WM/BM/BM/BM.

[Rand]

Now that this topic has been spammed up to hell.

Started today: A band of 4 adventurers charged to restore the world's balance through the ORBS, began their journey. Lo, sadly, they did not prepare properly, and Skfr the Thief, Cons the White Mage, and Sorn the Black Mage were lost. Vowing to avenge them and do his duty to the world at large, Rand the Redmage continued on...valiantly fighting alone against hordes of monsters, and eventually rescuing the Princess Sara from the evil knight, Garland.

More later.

[Sur Realis]

Cons got owned! *Lulz at Cons*

Good to know it's finally been started.

[Rand]

Well, I don't feel like writing out everything that i did. Suffice to say, Garland as slew horrifically, then came Bikke's Crew, a bunch of wizards, Astos, a Vallatio wannabe, and now Lich. Next on the sights of the level 50 Red Wizard: Kary, Fiend of Fire.

[Rand]

(I forgot to post to this, apologies) After slaying the Fiend of Earth, Lich, the tired Red Mage known as Rand quickly restored the power of the Orb of Earth, carrying the now shining Orb out of the Earth Cave with him.

Returning to the nearby town, the thankful villagers tell him of a city distant that is the current home of a group of wise men, who could shed some more light on my Quest, and incidentally was nearby the Gurgu Volcano, rumoured home of another Fiend, Kary of Fire.

Upon entering this city known as Crescent, I spoke to the nearb sages and learned much of the world's destruction and what was to come if I did not succeed. 'Twas a daunting task to be sure, what with my companions most horrificly slain. I was given a CANOE by one of the generous sages, as a means to travel to the nearby volcano and investigate it, searching for Kary. Little did I know that that night in the Inn, I would be assailed by dreams.

I dreamt of an old, broken-down castle... horrific monsters lying in wait, and a chest...with a rat's tail. I awoke to the maids in the early morning gossiping over what a recent traveler had been talking about, an item I had heard of before known as the FLOATER. It was supposedly in the Ice Caves, and if it could be found...one of the old AIRSHIPs of ancient times might be uncovered with it. I read that in a tome at Corneria, but didn't believe it possible or likely at the time. Now things seem to be going together....stocking up on supplies, I head myself out with my canoe in the rumoured direction of the Ice Caves.

[Not]

The Blackbelt/master is not broken he is just properly made.

[Jumin]

are u playing the original FF1 on like a ROM or something? i heard that one was really difficult..

i got the psp version and it's really easy -_-

[Takahashi]

The original isn't so much difficult as it is tedious.

- Unless you have a RM or WM in the party, the only way to heal up is with potions that only restore 30 HP at time outside of battle. In battle they tend to restore less most of the time, and you can only buy one at a time in item shops.

- There is no automatic retarget system, so if you assign more than one party member to a monster and the first one kills it, the second one will swing/cast at thin air and waste their turn.

- Magic is set up via a system where you have a set number of casts of each magic type, like D&D. This wouldn't be that big of a deal if not for one thing: The only ways to regain lost spell points are to visit an inn or to use a House (I don't think Cabins restored MP, just a fair bit more HP than Tents). So early on you have to carefully ration your spells and/or overlevel, and neither is all that much fun. Thankfully later on in the game you get items that can cast almost every spell you'd want to cast a lot, leaving your actual spells free to use for other things.

- A lot of weapons (and spells) don't do what they're supposed to do. That is, the Giant Sword doesn't do increased damage to giant-class monsters, the Coral Sword isn't good against sea creatures, etc. Similarly, the SABR spell doesn't have much beneficial effect when cast by a player, and a lot of spells cast by monsters do practically nothing at all (i.e., AFIR cast by Vampire Wizards reduces fire damage by 1 point, if it does anything at all).

There are a few other quirks, like how immunity to a status ailment (or with the Ribbon, almost all status ailments) really just means monsters and you have a 1 in 256 chance of inflicting whatever ailment you (they) are supposed to be immune to... but generally all of classic FF1's stuff are things that just make the game take longer instead of making it more difficult.

[Jumin]

well... the psp version sounds like it's just a fixed version of all of those..
i just feel like random encounters occur WAY too often